Thread:Jester of chaos/@comment-1672596-20161008195800/@comment-1672596-20161024163137

Jester of chaos wrote: The Jedi we already agreed at times were terrible and may of even started the Siths path to villainy but no one was saying they were pure good. That said Palpatine purposely made the Death Star for power and to easily control the galaxy never showing any care for anyones well-being while going on a crusade to kill all Jedi's and anyone who didn't surrender. Both committed terrible actions and yes you don't need a Superweapon per say Palpatines choice to destroy any world that refused to surrender gives him one of the biggest body counts possible especially when it was one of the the strongest known weapons in history.

Black and White absolute is rather flawed as you look on "They broke the law they are evil" morality when the world isn't so easy. People who break the law aren't always evil some only do it to survive like stealing food or money to afford food though it is more common greedy intention but their are exceptions. Most Humanity merely live in their own little world with little care of what is out. Nothing in the real world can be looked at as absolute as then you look over details and simply say they are good or evil with no room for exceptions. Communism of itself isn't bad though people like Stalin gave it a bad rep, its original meaning was to make everyone equal. And Marquis? He's one philosipher who's basically who if I recall was different than most other philosiphers. Obviously we won't agree philosophies so I recommend we both drop that part.

Actually, a lot of characters in-universe implied that Palpatine created the Death Star at least in part to drive out the Yuuzhan Vong invasion that was upcoming. Also, the only confirmed instance of the Death Star blowing up a planet full of people was when the Death Star blew up Alderaan (by that, I mean in regards to both Canon and Legends Expanded Universes, not to mention the films themselves alone). Even there, it's debated whether Palpatine even gave the order for its destruction. The Death Star novelization if anything strongly implied that Tarkin acted alone, not even getting proper authority from Palpatine beforehand.

Also, Communism IS in and of itself bad, something even Karl Marx made clear when he stated that he and his Communists fully intended to reenact the Reign of Terror and even go as far as to make it even gorier in terms of deaths than the Reign of Terror ever did (I'll even quote him, or rather, I'll quote a source that quoted his exact writings. "“There is only one way of shortening, simplifying, and concentrating the bloodthirsty death-throes of the old society and the bloody birth pangs of the new--revolutionary terror. . . .”

"Once we are at the helm, we shall be obliged to reenact the year 1793.”

“We are pitiless and we ask no pity from you. When our time comes, we shall not conceal terrorism with hypocritical phrases. . . The vengeance of the people will break forth with such ferocity that not even the year 1793 enables us to envisage it. . . .”

(Marx is speaking of "France in 1793". This was the time of the Reign of Terror, of the French Revolution. The judicial heart of the Terror was the Revolutionary Tribunal of Paris. Its "proceedings became mere public pillorying of the already condemned. Death was the only sentence."  These tribunals were "the real shock troops of the Revolution." They were "entrusted with the pursuit of 'suspects.” ) -The Clairmont Institute

You see, Marx is already envisioning a tightly controlled, centralized party. One that rules, by force, against the general population. One that transforms a nation by means of ruthless, pitiless, terror. One that administers inhumane tortures to all, making no distinction between the revolution's real enemies and people they might just suspect of being against them.

Marx again: “We shall be constrained to undertake Communist experiments and extravagant measures, the untimeliness of which we know better than anyone else. . . . Until the world is able to form a historical judgment of such events, we shall be considered "beasts," which doesn't matter!” -The Clairmont Institute

“which doesn't matter” Now that should tell you all you need to know !!

Marx again: “The classes and the races too weak to master the new conditions of life must give way…. They must perish in the “Revolutionary Holocaust”

( Karl, did you just say holocaust?)

Here’s a video: http://youtu.be/s3ASjchiI2M"

Source: https://www.facebook.com/373757305985421/photos/a.373910375970114.102939.373757305985421/819295658098248/?type=1&theater

And bear in mind, their description of what the French Revolution isn't even the half of it, to quote Commander Grignon: "everyone [the republican army] met was to be immediately killed, even if they were Republicans.", right after Vendee, when the army's bloodlust was at its peak). And if the founding father of communism made clear they were a bunch of blood thirsty psychopaths who wanted to re-enact one of the worst disasters that even most romanticists of the French Revolution would give pause to, not to mention Karl Marx making clear he wrote love poems to Satan of all people, then yes, that by definition means it is evil, and most people definitely would agree that Robespierre's reign of terror was evil (personally, I'd argue the French Revolution in itself was evil from the start, but not many other people do think that the French Revolution was evil). And BTW, even ignoring Stalin, we've also got Lenin, who definitely had a very bloody hand and also advocated for the slaughter of countless people.

And BTW, Sade wasn't merely "different" from most other philosophers, he actually was considered to be an equal to the likes of Voltaire, Diderot, and Rousseau in terms of their founding the French Revolution, and his works were in fact emulated, like how Joseph LeBon actually used guillotine victims to recreate illustrations from one of his works. I could also easily cite Jean-Paul Sartre, who most certainly would have known about Mao Zedong's slaughters, yet praised his revolution and murders as "profoundly moral", called Che Guevara the Most Complete Human Being of the Century (and ignoring the murders Che conducted, Che also made clear he was a huge Stalin fanboy and modeled his gulag system after Stalin.).

And if there isn't an absolute right and wrong, that essentially makes morality meaningless, which means, there's no use for the term "complete monster."