Thread:Jester of chaos/@comment-1762629-20150217014234

Alright, since I can't sum up all my points in the pathetically small section offered in the edit summary, let's have a good-hearted debate, shall we?

You seem to be going by what the books say. Azog's article isn't on the books, as he's long dead in the literary version of The Hobbit, it's about his role on the movies. Sauron being a presence is all fine and dandy, but aside from some loosely veiled orders, Sauron does jack-crap until Lord of the Rings, and Morgoth hasn't even received so much as a token mention. Azog sets up a huge portion of the conflict as the main villainous force in the first movie, and continues to do so up until the climax of the third movie. The plot may be centered around Smaug for the first and second movies, but he's dead when the third one comes rolling in, and Sauron's repelled early on. Azog's essentially left to drive the antagonistic conflict on his own- without him, the third movie would've been an hour and a half shorter.

So no, he doesn't count as the Heavy in the books, but again, he doesn't have a role in the books- when he serves his role in the movies, he's the Heavy and, dare I say, the Big Bad. He's the archenemy of Thorin Oakenshield, the first, most recurring, and final enemy fought, the instigator of the conflict between the Orcs and the dwarves, the villain who sets up the final battle... honestly, I don't see why he wouldn't count. His influence is gone by the time of LOTR, but he has enough role in the Hobbit as is. Sauron isn't around enough, and as I've said before, Smaug does absolutely nothing until the second movie, and he's killed soon afterwards.

There. Care to share your points, or have I convinced you? 