Thread:Steven Pko/@comment-15895329-20170923155455

Do not remove that category from their pages again unless you can present a solid argument as to why they don't fit. And no, "they're not ones on TV Tropes" isn't it. Here's MY argument for why they fit:

Grodd (Injustice 2): He tries to help Brainiac destroy Earth but then ALSO plans to betray Brainiac later down the line, because as he explains to Black Adam and Aquaman: his true loyalty is to himself, not Gorilla City, Brainic, or Earth. He also plans to forcefully extract the scarab from the teenage Jaime Reyes without regard for the cost.

Dottie Underwood: The sadistic and bloodthirsty Red Room Assassin and Peggy Carter's arch-enemy. Lacking any sympathetic reason for becoming a Red Room operative (and nothing to indicate she was even necessarily forced into it), Dottie took to her training with a fanatical zeal even as a child, snapping the neck of one her sparring partners even after said sparring partner had earlier showed her kindness. And Dottie snapped her neck anyway without any remorse. As an adult, she still enjoys killing, murdering several people over the course of Agent Carter's first season, including hitting a movie theater full of innocent people with a gas that makes said people violent and drives them to brutally kill each-other with their bare hands. As if that wasn't enough, she also actively helps Dr. Johann Fennhoff in his plan to inflict the same terrible weapon on ALL OF NEW YORK CITY. And unlike him, she has no sympathetic backstory, no dead brother to grieve, no nothing. Just a sadistic, faux affably evil sociopath who enjoys the violence. Even her obsession with Peggy Carter is more just a sadistic interest rather than genuine respect or concern for her, no different than Joker's obsession with Batman. Similarly, her helping Peggy Carter in Season 2 was motivated purely by self-interest. Peggy herself outright acknowledges that Dottie is "despicable".

The Ogre (Gotham): A serial killer of women that he seduces, snatches away, and turns into his household servants before inevitably killing them after he either gets bored or they do or say something that annoys him. He also galvanizes Barbara Keane into embracing her dark side and murdering her own parents. Oh, and he also keeps police from trying to catch him by threatening their families and loved ones if they don't desist.

Prometheus (Arrow): Murders scores of policemen and innocent civilians (including a single mother begging for her life), tortures Oliver Queen over several days into admitting that he enjoys killing people (as well as making him think he killed Evelyn Sharp), murders his own wife when she becomes too much of an inconvenience to let live, and finally kidnaps Oliver's son and tries to make him choose between saving his son, and saving all of his other friends and family that are still on a now rigged to blow Lian Yu. When Oliver manages to save William without killing Prometheus, Prometheus decides to kill himself to kickstart the self-destruct, even though all of his so-called allies are still on the island. Yes, yes, Oliver murdered his father, but 1) Zander Rice lost his father to Wolverine and is still considered a CM, and 2) Prometheus' anger and moral posturing on Arrow is utter hypocrisy in view of everything described above. Oliver even outright calls him a hypocrite. So he is not exempt.

Andrew Diggle (Arrow): Chose to join Damien Dahrk (as all the Ghosts did), abandoned his own family, and actively helps Dahrk in his plan to kill off most of the world's population. And unlike Dahrk himself, Andrew Diggle loves no one, since he (again), abandoned his own family, got Laurel Lance killed and mocks his brother over it, tortures his own brother with sadistic relish, and threatens to murder his own sister-in-law and niece. He nas no redeeming qualities at all, and yes, he took the yellow pill that made him obedient but...that was his choice.

Riddler (Telltale): In just one episode manages to cement his status as the most evil and twisted villain in that Batman universe to date via putting people in sadistic "murder boxes" that alternate between decapitating people, slicing off their fingers, and superheating beneath their feet. He tortures Rumi Mori by slicing off some of his fingers before trying to decapitate him (after earlier threatening his family to get him to sell missiles to him in the first place), murders Lucius Fox by blowing him up with a missile and then sadistically rubs it in Batman's face twice, tortures and murders a member of the Agency, and tries to murder every Agency member in Gotham City via the missiles he got from Mori while also forcing a trapped Batman to choose between letting Agency Agent Avesta be tortured to death by multiple ultrasonics blasts or letting her teammates be decapitated one by one. Depending on how Batman chooses, she'll either go deaf or at least one of her teammates will be killed. And again, all of this is just in ONE episode. Not to mention he's currently worse than even that game's takes on Joker and Zsasz!

Simon Stagg (Arkhamverse):  While Simon Stagg is always a bad guy, he also usually has the one positive trait of caring about his daughter (in a twisted sort of way). The Arkham version on the other hand, despite outwardly appearing a nice guy, is in fact in cahoots with Scarecrow and alongside him performed unethical experiments on innocent people that drove them to madness and death, with Simon also sadistically taunting at least one of these people prior to their death. He dislikes Scarecrow, but because he views him as impractical rather than because he has moral standards. He also helps Batman stop Scarecrow's plot...but only because Batman scares him into doing so, not because he actually cares about anyone but himself. And, unlike his mainstream version, he doesn't even have a daughter to love or care about.

Hitler (Marvel): Besides doing/attempting all of the atrocities his real life counterpart did/attempted, there's also his being even more into the occult and also knowing full well that he's evil and not caring. In fact, he acknowledged that his evil was unmatched and deliberately took in a young Johann Schmidt because he saw in him someone who he could mold into a monster like him (never mind that Schmidt was already one). The argument of "offscreen villainy" is nonsense, because multiple flashbacks to the WWII era of Marvel gives plenty of proof of the Holocaust happening, and the horrors of World War II. Of all the many versions of Hitler in fiction, the Marvel version is one of the few that actually shows, explicitly, the evil of the man, plus giving him extra evil AND him being a Card Carrying Villain.

<p style="font-size:14px;">Ultimate Black Widow: M<span style="color:rgb(105,110,114);">urders Hawkeye's family, frames Captain America for it, helps an army of supervillains invade America, and murders Jarvis and mocks Tony's loss. She has no remorse for anything she does, and is just a sadistic, America-hating terrorist who's misguided attempt of revenge against the USA is no more sympathetic than MCU Ronan's campaign of "vengeance" against Xandar.

<p style="font-size:14px;"><span style="color:rgb(105,110,114);">Cassandra Nova:  <span style="color:rgb(105,110,114);">Committed mutant genocide when she destroyed Genosha and in the process got a bodycount numbering in the millions.

<p style="font-size:14px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">If you disagree with any of the above, I want arguments as to why. Not just "you're an idiot!" or "you're crazy!" or "you're wrong and that's that". I want arguments if people disagree. But I think that all of those villains qualify, and TV Tropes not considering them is NOT an argument, because they're not God. <ac_metadata title="Andrew Diggle, Hitler, and the rest are Pure Evil"> </ac_metadata>