User:Kaitlyn Strikes Back

Here's a short explanation of how I got into it and why I love it: The Ravages of Time was on my radar for a while, this was when I was 17 and I wanted something new to read, and I figured it'd be a good time passer, but I was expecting some cheap cash grab of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and to be badly paced and what not—the usual fare with these type of things. I love history, especially Chinese history, and Romance of the Three Kingdoms, so why not?

The first thing that confused me was it opening up with a long dream sequence Sima Yi is having (which we later find out is the foreshadow of Sima Yi's death in 254 A.D.) and I was further surprised that we even got Sima Yi so early on in the series. We also get Lü Bu, Diaochan and Dong Zhuo; some of the big characters everyone knows of. I was initially intrigued by the artistic choice to keep hiding Lü Bu's face in shadows, which made for a menacing presence. He was doing typical Lü Bu stuff, albeit A LOT more brutal than I anticipated such as him holding a general over a brazier as he burns to death and despite the general writhing in pain, Lü Bu never let go of his wrists.

Lü Bu in the novel is a baby faced dumb muscle character, the original proprietor of the One-Man Army trope, and he is the adopted son of Dong Zhuo. Let's rewind a bit for some historical context: The child emperor was being controlled as a puppet to the dowager, and the court was then being run with corrupt eunuchs, they were eunuchs because in those times the Chinese officials had their genitals seared off to reduce sexual appetite, allowing them to only focus on their duties in the court. They became corrupt and took over the court which began the Yellow Turban Rebellion in 164 A.D. This is not completely illuminated upon in the series. It's addressed multiple times throughout the earlier aspects of the series though. It's even used against Cao Cao because of his relation to a eunuch.

They reached out to Dong Zhuo and his Xiliang army to help purge the capital of the eunuchs, which he did, but then he took over and used the child emperor as a puppet in return.

Dong Zhuo bribed Lü Bu with the Red Hare (a prized horse that could ride 1,000 li in a day) to kill his foster-parent at the time. This would allow Dong Zhuo to adopt him. Historically, there's no evidence of this, and Red Hare was mentioned once in the biography of Lü Bu. Naturally its role has been emphasized in the original novel, and subsequent manga.

The basic narrative in the novel (that concerns Lü Bu and Diaochan) is that you have Diaochan, considered one of the Four Great Beauties of Ancient China, being coerced by her adopted father Wang Yun to manipulate Lü Bu into assassinating Dong Zhuo to restore Han. Dong Zhuo is infatuated with Diaochan too providing further motive and the two are madly in love. That's the basic idea of both characters; not particularly interesting or complex. Lots of melodrama strung together with weak character motives.

I should add this: The Four Great Beauties were women who lived at different time periods but were said to be so beautiful, there are accounts of fish hopping out of the rivers to catch sight of one of them, and another is said to make even the Moon hide in embarrassment from her beauty, the major difference with 3 of these Beauties compared to Diaochan though is that Diaochan has 0 historical evidence of ever existing, so probably just a fictional character for Romance of the Three Kingdoms to add conflict and drama and connect Lu Bu's motive for killing Dong Zhuo, okay, so back to the manga: in this version Diaochan is actually an assassin, and she works for Sima Yi who has an assassin quad and she is using Wang Yun as a cover up to infiltrate the capital as she is sent to try and retrieve the son I think of one of his contractors because Sima Yi in this version likes to take opportunities to contract landscape and make profit off of that, so already we have a wildly different range of motivations, set up and some different character interpretations, making it more interesting already, but that is what made me really love the series

so we have Dong Zhuo's nephew break into the temple Diaochan was at to try and rape her because he thinks his uncle doesn't deserve her and he wants her for himself but a man-servant steps in to plead with him and him and his guards beat up the man-servant, and then later when escaping she takes him with her and some guards shoot arrows their way but she protects him and the man-servant helps them escape and lead them out of the castle and they go to Sima's camp

now this is where it gets interesting and the character interpretation goes wildly off the charts, the nephew never wanted to actually rape her and was set up as part of a ploy by Lu Bu, and the man-servant is Lu Bu and tricked her to lead them to their camp, and he instantly saw through her and knew she was an assassin but it goes deeper than that, the reason his face was shadowed out earlier isn't just to hide this reveal, but he also loves to use body doubles to crush enemy morale, because the Guandong Alliance which is a coalition formed of feudal lords have come together to try and push Dong Zhuo out of the capital, so he has body doubles placed around his camps to detere enemy assaults because his "reputation" and "mythology" is growing into something that says Lu Bu is an army stomper, which he has casually been increasing, because he read Sima Hui/Shuijing's thesis titled On Morale and is using that at a basis for how to crush enemy morale using mind games and fear

BUT! it goes even further though....

then he sends out a message later on to communicate their next plans to another outpost, and the Guandong Alliance intercept it, but he expected this so he had the first message be a feint, so after triangulating the characters to match up, they find another message, but he knew they'd discover the 2nd message so he hid a 3rd message which you can only find using a folding method to allign the characters, so he had a feint within a feint within a feint, a triple trap... so this Lu Bu is not at ALLLLLLLLL stupid his novel counterpart and acts on his own so far and has his own ambition

it was at this point I was really into it, and this continues onto when he manages to kill Dong Zhuo but has to escape the city, so he uses one of his own body doubles so he can fake his own death just to escape undetected

Diaochan is also another character I never talked much about but she gets a massive character change and upgrade, her real name is Xiao Meng, Diaochan is an alias for her assassin work, and she turns out to be a he, to be specific a eunuch and because this society hates eunuchs it has made him very inferior and given an identity crisis, and he falls in love with Liaoyuan Huo, a fellow assassin in his camp, but is too disgusted with how he looks to ever confess and eventually Sima Yi has to sacrifice him as a pawn by exposing him as a eunuch in Xiapi for a plan he has going on involving mutiny in Cao Cao's camp

so massive change there, but also wildly more interesting and complex of a character

this just makes the entire character far more complex, engaging and gives a unique interpretation

oh and there's not just philosophy, strategy, tactics, politics, mind games etc., this is based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms afterall which is a wuxia novel and I did mention how Lu Bu was an original one man army, and this novel keeps the superhuman feats of strength, though as it goes on it greatly tones it down to where it doesn't even feel like it exists anymore but there is action, so not just politics and war as you may have been fearing, the first 4 volumes are the most action packed though until Chan Mou (author) found that fans liked his strategies, politics and philosophical aspects more, which is when he began to really tone it down, the manga covers 189-210 A.D. at present (in 484 chapters) and plans to end in 280 A.D.

so Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu and Diaochan got massive upgrades to make them better characters and more interesting and also competent, and because this manga is making everything more convoluted and expanded upon, like a character mentioned on 1 page of the novel even gets a massively expanded role, or when Cao Cao is having his pathetic retreat after losing the Battle of Chibi and trying to make it to Huarong Pass, instead of it ending there it turns into a battle of wits between Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu with a betrayal and a double betrayal carried out by Zuo Ci and Sima Yi etc.

2001 it began serialization, it's technically a manhua (Chinese comic) which is why it's no-hold barred with its historical context, geography, and expects you to be familiar with the novel, I just call it a manga as an umbrella term categorizing Korean, Chinese and Japanese comics

I like the overall realism to how they're drawn even when engaged in combat aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:00:14 AM): but ya XD sorry if i gushed too much, but I love this series and think it's genius jabcom (8/1/17 1:02:07 AM): Don't worry it's fine ^.^ it's always good to express yourself. I enjoy this look the manga is giving him. aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:02:46 AM): Liyaoyuan Huo I mentioned too later gets adopted into Zhao clan and becomes the famous Zhao Yun we know who is a general under Liu Bei aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:02:57 AM): so he becomes a historical domain character too aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:03:31 AM): but ya great stuff jabcom (8/1/17 1:03:37 AM): Ah was wondering how Zhao Yun would get introduced aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:04:00 AM): this is actually something I want to also bring up aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:04:15 AM): this is an interesting thing I find untapped in historical manga jabcom (8/1/17 1:05:02 AM): Also hope Liu Shan isn't still a lazy idiot aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:05:09 AM): The Ravages of Time actually plays intentionally with history and works it into it in a way that you can't necessarily say is untrue, as one of the main themes is that history is not what it seems and written by the winners, for example there's a moment where Zhang Fei is having his painting taken

but instead of how he looks in the manga, he has his picture painted totally different because there's a style of art he was a fan of as a kid and wants to be painted in that similar style aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:06:37 AM): and this manga does that kind of thing a lot, making clear acknowledgements that "this isn't actually what we know in history, but here's a detailed explanation for why it's different and why it leads into what we know in history" aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:07:16 AM): and imo more historical manga should do that and take advantage of its own potential to actually play with history aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:09 AM): as for Liu Shan, won't know until the manga gets to him and his rule yet, historically we have no idea why Zhuge Liang banned historians from the court but I'm sure the manga will come up with some interesting take on those events, especially when there's nothing recorded during that time allowing for more freedom to go all out aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:28 AM): the manga so far has only covered 189-210 A.D. in 484 chapters aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:45 AM): as I mentioned above in the extra bit I added aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:54 AM): the end of my super long copy and paste fest

he needed to lure out Xiao Meng because he suspected he was an assassin sent to infiltrate the capital and wanted to be lured to the Crippled Legion's camp and trap Sima Yi and outmaneuver the Guandong Alliance

he not only orchestrated the attempted rape with Dong Huang (Dong Zhuo's nephew), but then stood outside "her" door all night fending off the other heirs to Dong Zhuo, and then collapses, then when Xiao Meng goes to help him "Lu Bu" shows up, who's really his most famous body double (Zhang Liao) and then we find out that he was the only one to know of "Diaochan" being Dong Zhuo's secret, and so he must have told the others about her so they'd get into a compromising position trying to take her, and then sends word to Dong Zhuo to notify him of this so they'd be executed, because he's been rising in rank fast by proving his loyalty to Dong Zhuo and all his past rivals ended up executed for treason, then "Lu Bu" says he killed his father and brothers and his father turns out to be a Guandong insider, then of course he fights through the guards and shows Xiao Meng a hidden escape passage, and guards bust threw and she goes to throw needles at them and that's when "Lu Bu" confirms she was infact an assassin, and then he has cavalry men waiting on the other side of the passage and says they're going to save Sima Lang, who's part of the Sima clan obviously and "Diaochan" works for the Sima clan, specifically Sima Yi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:01:51 AM): and then of course we find out that the man the entire time was Lu Bu, and the other "Lu Bu" was a body double (which we later find out is Zhang Liao) etc etc. jabcom (8/2/17 6:03:04 AM): Zhang Liao dies early on? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:03:41 AM): nah, he eventually sheds the identity of a Lu Bu body double though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:03:49 AM): and becomes his own man as it goes on aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:00 AM): but ya, all of this, as well as of course what I explained where Xu Lin (an adviser to Dong Zhuo) is aware Sima Yi will try to have him assassinated so he fakes his own death using a body double, but Liaoyuan Huo is aware of this so fakes a failed assassination to lure out the real Xu Lin, on top of a dozen more plotlines involving the Guandong, and the Eight Geniuses etc etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:09 AM): all of this essentially happens within the first 2-3 volumes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:27 AM): and it only gets more crazy from there jabcom (8/2/17 6:10:05 AM): That's a lot of information to take in within just 3 volumes. And I'm assuming that's only going to be half of the chapters being focused on the Sima Yi and Lu Bu situation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:12:13 AM): yeah, a lot of the other chapters focus more on the Guandong Alliance, the Yuan clan, namely what Yuan Fang is doing, what Dong Zhuo is doing with the Liu Xie and that stuff aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:14:00 AM): oh and I do think you'll actually love Dong Zhuo a lot more in this manga, you said you always found him annoying but in this manga he is such an upgrade, especially when having "an honest conversation" with Wang Yun in chapter 60, and how he calls out Yang Yun for plotting, and that "Diaochan" isn't who "she" says she is either aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:17 AM): neither Lu Bu or Dong Zhuo catch onto the fact that Diaochan is actually a male though, eunuch... only people who really know that tend to be Sima Yi, Liaoyuan Huo and a few others, which is probably the only reason he managed to live so long honestly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:38 AM): because both Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo were pretty much onto him from the gate aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:55 AM): but he also happened to be their weak points

talk more about Dong Zhuo

ya, I think Lu Bu would have probably ripped him apart the moment he found out he was an assassin but both Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo seem to be more accomodating to a beautiful woman as it's their weakness and they pine after her aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:20:57 AM): I think Lu Bu would be particularly mad though because he had Xiao Meng and them trapped aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:20:59 AM): after his plan aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:26 AM): he got in close to kiss him to try and poison him (that'd never happen if he knew she was a guy) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:43 AM): but if he found out that she was a guy and realized he kissed him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:47 AM): that could go horribly wrong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:48 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:18 AM): but ya, Xiao kisses Lu Bu once and had a hidden poison needle in his throat aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:32 AM): Lu Bu saw it coming though and caught it in his teeth aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:47 AM): but what he didn't see was that Xiao also poisoned her lips aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:49 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:23:15 AM): only because beautiful women are his weakness, so he wasn't as aware as he'd be otherwise jabcom (8/2/17 6:24:44 AM): Ah beautiful women, the only weakness for the strongest and wisest men in ancient China xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:09 AM): ya XD infact aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:39 AM): Dong Zhuo even says at one point "there's only 2 things that never change in men no matter how old they get, their lustfulness and desire for power" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:57 AM): he says this when calling out both Xiao and Wang Yun jabcom (8/2/17 6:27:25 AM): Well.. That's pretty much true xD. Didn't expect a quote like that from Dong Zhuo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:30:22 AM): this Dong Zhuo also loves honesty, he's actually one of the few characters along with Lu Bu who isn't a hypocrit, and during his conversation with Wang Yun says "a real man will reveal everything, I dare to say I'll conquer the world and I acted upon it" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:30:53 AM): and after he's a character that respects honesty, so even if you confess to him your motives after he calls you out, he may let you live anyway jabcom (8/2/17 6:39:59 AM): Actually letting people live after hearing their motives. Definitely a different Dong Zhuo from what I know. I love it. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:03 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:10 AM): this Dong Zhuo is very different aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:55 AM): one of my favorite quotes as far as feeding off another character though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:45:40 AM): is when he captures Xiao Meng a second time and he says "didn't I tell you? you can't escape me Diaochan"

and then she replies "so I'm a hostage then?" as she goes towards a hidden knife aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:46:45 AM): then he throws a sword beside her through the table and says "you can call it being "held hostage" but why not say "enjoying the world together"?" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:10 AM): before he sits down onto the table with one hand on the sword he had embedded in it and Xiao just spread out on the table behind him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:17 AM): perfect moment of "cool" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:19 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 6:50:26 AM): XD even gets his own cool moment aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:54:23 AM): I'm actually going to just call Xiao Meng a she instead of he from now on actually only because that's how characters see him as, and he is more feminine in personality and I think he does actually identify as a woman to some extent honestly and doesn't mind, even likes being called as such by Liaoyuan Huo who she likes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:54:58 AM): and she's clearly homosexual anyway too because she reacts in a very specific way when encountering Dong Zhuo's manly sexuality for the first time, especially when he openly grabs her to kiss her aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:55:09 AM): and she had some reaction towards Lu Bu initially too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:55:52 AM): all of this is never openly stated or anything, but it's implied and shown over the course of her time in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:56:01 AM): which is what makes her such a complex and interesting character jabcom (8/2/17 6:58:59 AM): Ah poor Dong Zhuo if only he knew xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:41 AM): XD well, what he doesn't know won't hurt him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:49 AM): he got a good make out session with a beautiful woman aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:54 AM): all he needs to be aware off aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:55 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 7:00:09 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:10 AM): I also love how Sima Yi met his wife aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:17 AM): how he met his wife is interesting in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:43 AM): basically she is in an arranged marriage with Sima Yi, who she doesn't know and has never met, or rather... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:46 AM): she thinks she never met aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:02:36 AM): Sima Yi purposely dressed down into peasant clothing and works with horses as a servant and she talks to him about everything, even her feelings on Sima Yi (which are negative, saying he is probably some spoiled brat etc) XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:02:44 AM): little did she realize he was undercover the entire time aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:04:04 AM): then after some conflict

her and her servants get captured and tied up by an enemy faction aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:04:57 AM): then she tries seducing an advisor to try and drive a wedge between him and his current faction etc. but he doesn't fall for her bait and calls her a whore and a slut, and throws her out of the tent and says the soldiers can have their way with her as long as she isn't dead aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:05:56 AM): then Sima Yi still as a hostage and disguised as a servant calls out his hypocrisy that men can sleep with any woman and have many wives but women can't, and says how he actually sees what she did as clever and smart and then promised her he'd make her his wife when they get out of their situation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:06:08 AM): and then she learns that this man has been Sima Yi the entire time aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:06:16 AM): love it jabcom (8/2/17 7:07:32 AM): It's unusually romantic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:08:45 AM): ya, unusually romantic indeed which is why it's so great aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:09:42 AM): they didn't have to do the usual romantic beats for it to be romantic and make sense on why they became in-love because both of their personalities allign and motives etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:09:47 AM): didn't feel forced

nd there's not enough women anyway, there's only really like a few prominent female characters, like Zhang Chun Hua (Sima's wife), Sun Shu, the arranged marriage with Yuan Fang (I forget the name of her, but Yuan Fang pretty much sacrifices her early on anyway) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:36:54 AM): Lady Fan (who's set up as a femme fatale for Zhao Yun and we get like 5 or so volumes with her) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:37:29 AM): and Lady Zhao (who's mentioned on one page of the novel, but in the manga is turned into a chessmaster-type character) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:37:42 AM): only prominent female characters I can really think of aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:38:10 AM): then you also got Xiao Meng which I'll count because of what I've said above aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:38:19 AM): about it though jabcom (8/2/17 7:42:33 AM): I see i thought there would of been at least twice that amount of females but they seem pretty rare aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:42:40 AM): makes sense there aren't that many female characters though, as too many, especially too many with prominent roles would ruin the authenticity of the series, because the series is pretty authentic to the time period and faithful to history and the novel, because this was a time where it's unusual for women to be seen as anything above their societal gender role which is seen from many characters, like the one I mentioned with Zhang Chun Hua where she is called a slut, and whore and dragged out to be raped, or how Dong Huang tried raping Xiao Meng earlier as Diaochan, or that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:00 AM): so it doesn't bug me too much because I'd rather keep the authenticity intact aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:42 AM): and for what little female characters we do get (including Xiao Meng), they're actually well written, interesting, smart (not dumb or even any less smart than the men as Sima's wife is just as clever as him) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:56 AM): and very proactive in the plot within their roles aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:45:02 AM): so I personally see no problem with it... now if women were just in the story to be sex objects or window dressing, that'd be bad... even if we got a ton more, but for the few we get, they're actual characters aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:45:35 AM): *actual aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:46:13 AM): there's also probably some other female characters I'm forgetting jabcom (8/2/17 7:51:27 AM): I prefer it this way as well. Having less nurtured characters would make a series much better than many copy cat mindless characters. I just keep forgetting the story isn't too far ahead so I keep wondering where characters such as Xingcai and Lady Zhurong are aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:52:59 AM): � they'll come in eventually aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:05 AM): manga only 210 A.D. right now aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:27 AM): probably won't even get to the actual Three Kingdoms period in 220 A.D. until chapter 700-800 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:29 AM): XD

seeing as it's almost 500 chapters and only 189-210 jabcom (8/2/17 7:54:27 AM): Oh gosh x.x well... can't rush perfection so I'll wait patiently xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:54:53 AM): I like how the author is taking his time to go through each year and expanding upon everything aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:54:58 AM): and what do you mean by less nurtured characters?

ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:35:33 AM): and in context of the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:35:41 AM): Guo Jia is fucking epic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:36:41 AM): he's regarded as the king of strategy, and planned for the Battle of Guandu 15 years in advance aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:02 AM): and he even had plans within plans within plans to be carried out after he died aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:11 AM): for what would become the Battle of Chibi in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:14 AM): to help Cao Cao aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:37 AM): the manga kills him interestingly too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:42 AM): historically he just fell ill aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:52 AM): which ofc isn't uncommon in those times aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:39:32 AM): the manga has him make his debut as already ill though, so it's slowly killing him so it feels more like a build up and also explains when he's sometimes not involves because of being bed ridden aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:40:49 AM): and a famous, genius doctor is constantly called upon to check up on him, and the reason he dies is because the doctor was kept away from attending him due to Zhuge Liang's strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:41:02 AM): and then he dies, succumbing to his illness aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:41:09 AM): so I like how that was done jabcom (8/2/17 8:42:34 AM): A great way to take him out jabcom (8/2/17 8:45:04 AM): Doesn't make him look weak all and shows that the battlefield isn't the only dangerous place aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:45:59 AM): exactly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:48:45 AM): idk how you'll like Guo Jia in this version aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:48:56 AM): he is quite different too from his historical and novel counterpart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:49:19 AM): I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:50:42 AM): his debut in the manga is basically him propping himself up as a genocidal maniac where he had Cao Cao massacre 10s of thousands, burn the corpses and surrounding lands, just so 10 more cities can be taken without fighting (as they all surrendered) and then this was further used to flood refugees into Xuzhou and smoke out the city etc etc. and it took Zhuge Liang AND Sima Yi together to really break his initial strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:51:49 AM): Guo Jia then compliments them for defeating his strategy and concedes defeat (I think he could have stopped them if he wanted though but he chose to just remain a bystander to observe how they'd beat his stratagem) Sima Yi in this version is like true neutral, where he's just there for profit and building up the Sima clan for the longest aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:58:19 AM): he sees the world as nothing full of evil, so he sees no interest in doing anything greater, and is only motivated to change when the Sima clan massacre was orchestrated by Xu Chu (Xu Lin's son who had a grudge against Sima Yi for having his father assassinated in chapter 3) and some other factors aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:00:07 AM): but he likes making deals, contractors etc. no matter who it is jabcom (8/2/17 9:00:25 AM): That's doing his character much more justice than him being a psychotic leader wanting to take over the three kingdoms just to make a name for himself and in his father's name aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:32 AM): his dream in chapter 1 which I mentioned in my 50 paragraph explanation of how I got into the series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:43 AM): show's an aged Sima Yi who's stricken with madness aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:57 AM): so I assume he'll become mad as it gets closer to that point aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:02:16 AM): as a ton of shit has already happened to him and he hasn't exactly had the nicest of times in the series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:00 AM): but ya, he starts out pretty neutral to the point Zhuge Liang even warns Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun to stop serving Sima Yi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:29 AM): because a man with no morals, values, motives etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:31 AM): is dangerous aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:04:42 AM): as for Guo Jia, it's not necessarily that he's even evil in the manga, it's just that he believes in the cruelest acts during times of war is a necessity to end war aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:11 AM): as he's a person who believes in the "darkness" ideology aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:28 AM): he's also the most sacrificial in the manga, or one of them aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:52 AM): as he willingly lets people view him as a monster, having a horrible reputation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:06:07 AM): and gives his all for his chosen lord, Cao Cao jabcom (8/2/17 9:06:49 AM): Ah I see. As fuck up as it is he's not exactly wrong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:08:02 AM): ya, I was finding myself torn, because I can completely understand his perspective and it is productive when he managed to conquer 10 more cities without even fighting in the same week aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:08:14 AM): just for slaughtering 1 city and burning it jabcom (8/2/17 9:11:59 AM): I know I'm going to feel mix emotions when I get there lol aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:13:12 AM): ya, when you read the manga though you'll probably have mixed emotions althrough out, like a hard-on for Diaochan, ending up loving Dong Zhuo, not sure how to react to Guo Jia XD etc aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:13:50 AM): I personally love all the character interpretations though and think they're great, and Guo Jiua jabcom (8/2/17 9:14:07 AM): Oh gosh please no I'm straight XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:14:10 AM): Guo Jia is one of my favorites in the manga because I see him as such a complex, tragic character aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:14:37 AM): a tragic hero aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:28 AM): well I meant loving Dong Zhuo as in "ooh he's a pretty awesome character!" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:28 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 9:15:32 AM): I'm glad the strategiest are being as important as they should be aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:44 AM): oh ya jabcom (8/2/17 9:15:52 AM): Oh no I meant Diaochan xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:08 AM): he has no balls or dick :'o aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:12 AM): he's almost there aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:16 AM): you'll never notice aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:17 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 9:16:35 AM): XD not sure how to feel about that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:23 AM): this manga is all about political strife, strategies etc. and while the first 4 volumes are the most action oriented, the author tones it down (as well as the exaggerated feats of strength) when he found that the audience were more accepting of the mindgames, philosophies etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:43 AM): so it's slowly been disappearing and after Lu Bu died it just dropped off greatly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:56 AM): so makes sense the strategists shine the most jabcom (8/2/17 9:22:54 AM): I'm glad that he tone it down. Most people are getting tired of "brute strength is everything" and having something like strategies becoming the primary way to achieve victory is a refreshing and nice feeling aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:24:29 AM): true, although there were still plenty of strategies and stuff even within those first 3 volumes (as I pointed out and explained), Lu Bu and Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun being prime examples of 2 characters who do have brute strength but also honed and refined their mind too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:25:21 AM): even though Lu Bu is a literal 1 man army, he never only relies on that to get out of situations jabcom (8/2/17 9:29:06 AM): Yes I'm glad he also relied on strategies too, it makes him even more of a monster and even more of a accomplishment for cao cao to kill him. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:29:49 AM): oh definitely, but just wanted to point out even when the series was at its most action packed jabcom (8/2/17 9:29:53 AM): Speaking of Lu Bu do they introduce Lu Lingqi or does he not have a daughter in the manga? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:29:57 AM): lots of strategies, and all of that stuff was still there he has a daughter, but I don't remember if the manga uses her Romance of the Three Kingdoms name or doesn't mention it at all (like actual historical documents as we have no idea what his daughters name was) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:31:54 AM): so I can't remember the manga ever specifically calling her Li Lingqi though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:32:50 AM): Lu Lingqui is also unnamed in the novel too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:01 AM): only the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games gave her a name afterall aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:17 AM): so I think his daughter in the manga if memory serves right actually goes unnamed aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:58 AM): but Lu Bu considers her his prize, and she's the one thing who he really loves above all aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:20 AM): which makes it such a heartbreaking moment when Xu Chu reveals he wasn't slow witted and was plotting the downfall of Lu Bu in secret aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:30 AM): and cut his daughter in half before his eyes, when she was like 7 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:39 AM): and Lu Bu just fucking broke jabcom (8/2/17 9:34:50 AM): Oh shit aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:04 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:16 AM): never seen Lu Bu so distraught and unhinged in the entire series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:19 AM): before that moment aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:35 AM): he let out a real loud cry of anguish and anger aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:30 AM): kind of interesting though, how the reason Lu Bu even lost at Xiapi in the manga and had to witness his daughter die and have himself executed aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:52 AM): is ALL because of EVERY SINGLE time he backstabbed someone, or said something to someone aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:58 AM): and it just all came back to bite him in his ass aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:14 AM): Xu Chu who was plotting against him as revenge for Xu Lin aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:25 AM): Jia Xu who was plotting against him for Dong Huang and Dong Zhuo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:49 AM): the fact he told Cao Cao at the beginning of the manga that he'll do anything to get out alive so he can come back aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:04 AM): and Cao Cao remembered those words when considering whether to execute him or let him live aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:25 AM): but also what he did to Liu Bei and how Liu Bei helped sway Cao Cao's judgment because of past interactions aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:39 AM): literally everything Lu Bu did in the past, or said, came back to fuck him up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:02 AM): the live actions show him as a baby faced immature, brash kid, who just wants to have fun and prematurely take control of stuff when he gets in possession of his OWN strategist, as Chen Gong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:19 AM): and the games, don't go this route thankfully... but aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:27 AM): he's still consistently depicted as a dumb muscle aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:29 AM): regardless aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:39 AM): and is just stupid but stupidly powerful aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:27 AM): basically aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:31 AM): he's a paper tiger aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:42 AM): he crumbles the moment you bring a competent strategist to the battle field XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:54 AM): which is why he needed Chen Gong to even last as long as he did jabcom (8/2/17 9:46:55 AM): Perfect description xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:47:31 AM): yeah XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:47:36 AM): whereas in this version aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:48:51 AM): he's a seasoned, matured warrior, who's honed his intellectual capacity, is a skilled strategist, tactician and politician, competent at mindgames and reading people, but is also patient, but also his own developed, thought out ideologies and philosophies, and has things that genuinely are close to his heart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:13 AM): and how he is defeated isn't because he's just stupid and Chen Gong gets outsmarted aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:28 AM): it's because all his past backstabbings come back to bite him in the ass by culminating at Xiapi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:36 AM): after he's already mentally broken aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:40 AM): he's then physically broken aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:50:27 AM): also very cultured too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:50:31 AM): as he is well read jabcom (8/2/17 10:01:04 AM): His own will to do whatever he can to survive got him killed.. I like that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:06 AM): yup aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:17 AM): it's kind of that tragic irony at play aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:20 AM): which is great aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:35 AM): I just like the fact that the reason he lost and died is purely because of himself actually now that I think about it though... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:11 AM): there has never been a single time Lu Bu has lost a fight when he's at 100%, like he lost to Liaoyuan Huo early on but because of the poison really kicking into his body from Xiao Meng's kiss, and he previously had fought 2 other crippled assassin's under Sima Yi before Liaoyuan showed up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:32 AM): and he lost to Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei but only because was gravely injured, wounded, exhausted etc. already aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:35 AM): before fighting aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:57 AM): I think Lu Bu is probably the strongest character in the entire manga, even when Ma Chao is introduced aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:05 AM): or even current Liaoyuan Huo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:23 AM): I don't think anyone compared to how strong Lu Bu is depicted in this series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:47 AM): this man shits on his novel counterpart, not just in the obvious intelligence but also in physical feats jabcom (8/2/17 10:15:53 AM): I'm happy about that he deserved to be known as the strongest of that era. Even though Guan Yu's my favorite and I enjoy the 1v1's they had in the animes, no one should really be able to beat Lu Bu, at least not without many strategies xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:16:53 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:16:56 AM): I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:26 AM): from splitting a mountain, to defeating an army of 250,000 and walking through a Persian style arrow flurry aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:32 AM): the man is a fucking beast XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:43 AM): and what's interesting aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:55 AM): is I think he gets stronger and more skilled when Chen Gong joins him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:18:06 AM): because now he is able to hone his physical prowess even more aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:18:20 AM): while Chen Gong becomes the chief strategist and advisor jabcom (8/2/17 10:20:44 AM): Well shit I thought the most he done in there was slice someone in half with no effort but a fucken mountain? Geez xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:09 AM): slicing a man in half is pretty awesome but... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:41 AM): he once punched a mans entire fucking torso off into a bloodstain with his bare fist, just casual, because he was talking and interupting his thinking aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:44 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:22:08 AM): like and that man was full plated in armor jabcom (8/2/17 10:22:13 AM): What is this fist of the North star? XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:22:19 AM): hold up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:28:11 AM): he also beat like 4 of Cao Cao's strongest generals at once so Lu Bu is strong as fuck in this manga and lives up to his reputation in the novel aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:29:52 AM): https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4030033 Lu Bu taking off a guys torson 1 handed without a weapon jabcom (8/2/17 10:36:07 AM): Jesus Christ aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:38:01 AM): so ya, there's plenty of strategy, tactics, politics, philosophical discussions, all that jazz, but I don't think you'll be too disappointed with characters either when it comes to their physical feats, because this manga does have that wuxia aspect and give characters their superhuman feats if they're supposed to have it, although like I said it tones down after volume 4 and after Lu Bu dies, we don't see anything completely "wtf" insane aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:38:32 AM): which is why I say Lu Bu is easily the strongest character in this entire manga just based off of his feats alone aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:39:00 AM): Lu Bu is a fucking monster though jabcom (8/2/17 10:42:27 AM): Indeed he is. It was a good time to tone down as well as I don't think people would enjoy other warriors having feats anywhere near close to his. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:20 AM): ya, I think the author specifically singals out Lu Bu because he is considered "among men, there is only Lu Bu" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:31 AM): so it was appropriate to make him strong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:36 AM): although aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:42 AM): it could be argued this Lu Bu aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:52 AM): BECAUSE he is also so intelligent aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:58 AM): is disgustingly overpowered aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:09 AM): but eh oh well aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:17 AM): still my 2nd favorite character in the series XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:58 AM): and I actually don't mind the action or over the topness as much here because of the art and what kind of series this is aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:45:33 AM): it's Romance of the Three Kingdoms so I go into it especting wuxia elements (like gliding through the air style wuxia, but superhuman martial arts style wuxia) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:45:51 AM): and the art is extremely detailed and realistic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:01 AM): characters move how they're supposed to and have a weighty feel to them aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:27 AM): and nothing happens to a character where you go "okay, how is he alive?" minus maybe like 1 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:59 AM): which is Dian Wei aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:47:24 AM): because he like gets cut in half but his will to serve Cao Cao is so strong he's still alive, but ofc he dies aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:47:44 AM): but it's like "god damn, dat will to serve is strong!" orthebarrel (8/2/17 10:48:22 AM): but minus him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:48:46 AM): no characters are surviving things that don't make sense aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:14 AM): well he doesn't survive anyway I guess aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:21 AM): but I mean he didn't instantly die aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:27 AM): he died like 3 secs later aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:28 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:30 AM): still aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:55 AM): and ya btw about the wuxia aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:12 AM): the fights aren't you punch I dodge, or I take a hit to the face and go back and laugh aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:47 AM): even as strong as Lu Bu is, nobody has steel skin, and a simple needle could cut him as they're still human aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:58 AM): they just have superhuman capabilities in reflexes, speed, strength aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:17 AM): so when you see fights for example aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:39 AM): the art shows characters actually dodging, performing acrobatics, blocking hits with their weapons etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:45 AM): actual martial arts basically aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:07 AM): and during these battles you'll have awesome team work usually when it's more than 1 against Lu Bu aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:17 AM): or battle analysis and strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:29 AM): during the combat aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:53:18 AM): so there's tactics and a game of chess played out sometimes during the fights, coupled with realistic and detailed art and martial arts on display aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:53:44 AM): creating a convincing and realistic fight even if the characters involved have superhuman physicality like Guan Yu, Zhang Fei etc. jabcom (8/2/17 10:56:24 AM): Ah I see so even if they have overwhelming strength, a simple mistake can lead them to their death from a much weaker opponent aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:07 AM): yeah, because they're still human afterall and if they had steel hard to skin and could easily recover from vital injuries, it'd break the overall realism, and authenticity and also make you question how characters can be executed or even brought down aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:39 AM): so really the only superhuman aspects they have are what its genre (wuxia) typically shows and what the novel describes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:51 AM): which is speed, reflexes, strength, agility aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:53 AM): about it aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:00 AM): in The Ravages of Time, Xiao Meng is able to shoot very far too, but the only time she's able to shoot even remotely as far as archers in Kingdom is when she has one of those body bows, and uses her legs to hold it as she uses both hands to pull back the string aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:17 AM): so in that case, it's a specialized oversized bow made for those type of long shots aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:39 AM): nobody in the manga has used a regular bow though and come close to what an archer in Kingdom does aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:42:38 AM): but I just assume the bows in Kingdom are made out of some magic elf wood and magic imbued string so in this series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:15 PM): you know how I mentioned Sima Hui/ Shuijing during my long initial explanation? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:26 PM): like how Lu Bu read Suijing's thesis On Morale aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:29 PM): and applied it? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:19:49 PM): Shuijing is a teacher in the manga who teaches the Eight Geniuses aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:20:04 PM): technically they're called the Eight Enigmas aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:20:56 PM): and basically the Eight Enigmas are 8 military advisors who are considered 8 of the best of their era, and they all wear identical uniforms and masks so you can't tell them apart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:21:27 PM): and the only time they shed their uniform and mask is when they choose a lord to serve aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:21:45 PM): and they're so good even a dimunitive lord can rise to great heights if one becomes his advisor jabcom (8/2/17 12:22:37 PM): Hm I have a feeling I heard of this before but don't fully remember it aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:23:26 PM): the Eight Enigmas consist of Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Zhuge Liang, Yuan Fang, Zhou Yu, Pang Tong, Xun Yu and Zhao Yun (not Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun though, but someone else from the Zhao clan who's the real Zhao Yun) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:25:10 PM): so the manga takes a totally different approach to this aspect aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:25:42 PM): and it kind of adds an air of further mystery too especially when for the long everyone was curious who the Eighth would be etc. Guo Jia is great though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:16 PM): I do love Jia Xu though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:21 PM): especially in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:48 PM): he chose his lord to be Dong Zhuo (as I mentioned above how he was part of Lu Bu's downfall at Xiapi for wanting revenge) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:04 PM): one thing I love about Jia Xu is his reputation though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:14 PM): he said he'd take only 1/3rd of the army aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:19 PM): and beat Lu Bu in 5 days aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:43 PM): Lu Bu is like "let's him try" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:52 PM): and 5 days go by and Lu Bu gets rekt jabcom (8/2/17 12:39:03 PM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:07 PM): Jia Xu is so well known for his "badass boast" too in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:25 PM): that he uses it to fake out Liu Bei, because he gives a badass boast about beating Liu Bei aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:37 PM): and it's enough to scare Liu Bei to keep behind his walls for 10 days aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:47 PM): allowing Jia Xu to remobilize and get back into the fight aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:48 PM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 12:40:40 PM): He's just bitching everyone out I see xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:11 PM): haha ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:35 PM): Zhou Yu is great too, he chooses to serve Sun Ce aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:59 PM): Sun Ce is awesome aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:42:43 PM): one thing I like about Sun Ce is how the manga dives into some PTSD aspects of his character, because he has this dream where he sees his father on the battlefield and he walks up to him and his father doesn't even recognize him jabcom (8/2/17 12:48:02 PM): It's a highly possible case I'm honestly surprise they don't have more PTSD situation for these types mangas aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:48:35 PM): same, I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:49:57 PM): even in the Ancient World, while people were more immune to violence and war and PTSD was only first called PTSD in 1980, as before that during WWI it was battle fatigue, shell shocked etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:08 PM): but... people are still fucking people are you tell me nobody has gotten PTSD in the millenniums of war just because people were more used to it back then? XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:47 PM): there are tons of documented possible PTSD cases too in history aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:53 PM): they just weren't called PTSD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:59 PM): nobody knew what they were XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:52:00 PM): so I definitely like that The Ravages of Time adds a PTSD element to it (as I think almost everything is really add in this manga honestly at some point) similar to how in A Song of Ice and Fire that series of books also has an element of PTSD in its characters

ONE PIECE: one of the things I love about One Piece though is the nuances in characterization, like, okay, the characterization isn't brilliant, it's not going to make you walk away thinking "wow, that is such a deeply complex character", but it is competent, and there are moments of nuances, for example, take Luffy, he's relatively simple minded, gullible even and definitely uneducated, which makes sense given his upbringing as he had no education... but when challenged by the concept of death when looking for the One Piece, he simply said "well, if I die then I die and there's nothing I can do about it", and to me this was rather interesting as a main protagonist of a shonen series because usually it'd be a "ha! I won't die, because I'm going to fullfill my dreams!" but not Luffy, and this sort of realist perspective is consistent even up to the Alabasta Arc when he punches Vivi and says "people are going to die, you can't stop that, it's war and people die in war, but what we can do is go kick Crocodile's ass!", to me this is why I like Luffy, because sure... he's dumb, but he's never naive about the world he inhabits, he's never overly idealistic, he's actually much closer to a realist in these moments

another example is when Usopp is about to ask Rayleigh about the One Piece and Luffy says "I don't want to know where it is, or even IF there is a One Piece" and what's so interesting about this is that it really encapsulates the series, this is a series about adventure, and the journey along the way, everyone as he says sets out to find the One Piece, it's not about whether there even is a One Piece, it's about the idea behind it that inspires people, and to Luffy, he refuses to have a boring adventure because that isn't what he wants, he wants to have a fun adventure with people he can call his friends, and this is why the immense length of the series works in its favor because this is what it's about at its core, One Piece is a comedy adventure mystery, it's also a battle manga but it's more than that

and similary, this is why I can respect Oda so much as a writer, because every now and then characters will spew philosophical dialogue and viewpoints that make you think like "oh, wow that's something I never thought about before" or "wow, there's a lot to this character" like how Doflamingo said during Marineford "Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!'

and this is something I got to love about it, One Piece as I said isn't the most brilliant example of complex or nuanced characterization, but the simple fact that it's still competent, aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 2:34:30 PM): and consistent and nuanced enough, and does offer up those "wow, that's introspective" every now and then is something I respect in Oda as a writerI've been thinking recently on the subjects of reviewing and critical analysis. As a supporter for criticism, the reviews on MAL are distasteful.

Shot composition comparison between The Heroic Legend of Arslan (1991/92 vs. 2015): [spoiler] [yt]SjCFnAqaogI[/yt]

[yt]mkuse7_eGpI[/yt]

[yt]jh0pSCxFZKo[/yt][/spoiler]

Tribute to a Legend:

[yt]OIsbxpkTTDE[/yt][/spoiler]

Here's a short explanation of how I got into it and why I love it: The Ravages of Time was on my radar for a while, this was when I was 17 and I wanted something new to read, and I figured it'd be a good time passer, but I was expecting some cheap cash grab of Romance of the Three Kingdoms and to be badly paced and what not—the usual fare with these type of things. I love history, especially Chinese history, and Romance of the Three Kingdoms, so why not?

The first thing that confused me was it opening up with a long dream sequence Sima Yi is having (which we later find out is the foreshadow of Sima Yi's death in 254 A.D.) and I was further surprised that we even got Sima Yi so early on in the series. We also get Lü Bu, Diaochan and Dong Zhuo; some of the big characters everyone knows of. I was initially intrigued by the artistic choice to keep hiding Lü Bu's face in shadows, which made for a menacing presence. He was doing typical Lü Bu stuff, albeit A LOT more brutal than I anticipated such as him holding a general over a brazier as he burns to death and despite the general writhing in pain, Lü Bu never let go of his wrists.

Lü Bu in the novel is a baby faced dumb muscle character, the original proprietor of the One-Man Army trope, and he is the adopted son of Dong Zhuo. Let's rewind a bit for some historical context: The child emperor was being controlled as a puppet to the dowager, and the court was then being run with corrupt eunuchs, they were eunuchs because in those times the Chinese officials had their genitals seared off to reduce sexual appetite, allowing them to only focus on their duties in the court. They became corrupt and took over the court which began the Yellow Turban Rebellion in 164 A.D. This is not completely illuminated upon in the series. It's addressed multiple times throughout the earlier aspects of the series though. It's even used against Cao Cao because of his relation to a eunuch.

They reached out to Dong Zhuo and his Xiliang army to help purge the capital of the eunuchs, which he did, but then he took over and used the child emperor as a puppet in return.

Dong Zhuo bribed Lü Bu with the Red Hare (a prized horse that could ride 1,000 li in a day) to kill his foster-parent at the time. This would allow Dong Zhuo to adopt him. Historically, there's no evidence of this, and Red Hare was mentioned once in the biography of Lü Bu. Naturally its role has been emphasized in the original novel, and subsequent manga.

The basic narrative in the novel (that concerns Lü Bu and Diaochan) is that you have Diaochan, considered one of the Four Great Beauties of Ancient China, being coerced by her adopted father Wang Yun to manipulate Lü Bu into assassinating Dong Zhuo to restore Han. Dong Zhuo is infatuated with Diaochan too providing further motive and the two are madly in love. That's the basic idea of both characters; not particularly interesting or complex. Lots of melodrama strung together with weak character motives.

I should add this: The Four Great Beauties were women who lived at different time periods but were said to be so beautiful, there are accounts of fish hopping out of the rivers to catch sight of one of them, and another is said to make even the Moon hide in embarrassment from her beauty, the major difference with 3 of these Beauties compared to Diaochan though is that Diaochan has 0 historical evidence of ever existing, so probably just a fictional character for Romance of the Three Kingdoms to add conflict and drama and connect Lu Bu's motive for killing Dong Zhuo, okay, so back to the manga: in this version Diaochan is actually an assassin, and she works for Sima Yi who has an assassin quad and she is using Wang Yun as a cover up to infiltrate the capital as she is sent to try and retrieve the son I think of one of his contractors because Sima Yi in this version likes to take opportunities to contract landscape and make profit off of that, so already we have a wildly different range of motivations, set up and some different character interpretations, making it more interesting already, but that is what made me really love the series

so we have Dong Zhuo's nephew break into the temple Diaochan was at to try and rape her because he thinks his uncle doesn't deserve her and he wants her for himself but a man-servant steps in to plead with him and him and his guards beat up the man-servant, and then later when escaping she takes him with her and some guards shoot arrows their way but she protects him and the man-servant helps them escape and lead them out of the castle and they go to Sima's camp

now this is where it gets interesting and the character interpretation goes wildly off the charts, the nephew never wanted to actually rape her and was set up as part of a ploy by Lu Bu, and the man-servant is Lu Bu and tricked her to lead them to their camp, and he instantly saw through her and knew she was an assassin but it goes deeper than that, the reason his face was shadowed out earlier isn't just to hide this reveal, but he also loves to use body doubles to crush enemy morale, because the Guandong Alliance which is a coalition formed of feudal lords have come together to try and push Dong Zhuo out of the capital, so he has body doubles placed around his camps to detere enemy assaults because his "reputation" and "mythology" is growing into something that says Lu Bu is an army stomper, which he has casually been increasing, because he read Sima Hui/Shuijing's thesis titled On Morale and is using that at a basis for how to crush enemy morale using mind games and fear

BUT! it goes even further though....

then he sends out a message later on to communicate their next plans to another outpost, and the Guandong Alliance intercept it, but he expected this so he had the first message be a feint, so after triangulating the characters to match up, they find another message, but he knew they'd discover the 2nd message so he hid a 3rd message which you can only find using a folding method to allign the characters, so he had a feint within a feint within a feint, a triple trap... so this Lu Bu is not at ALLLLLLLLL stupid his novel counterpart and acts on his own so far and has his own ambition

it was at this point I was really into it, and this continues onto when he manages to kill Dong Zhuo but has to escape the city, so he uses one of his own body doubles so he can fake his own death just to escape undetected

Diaochan is also another character I never talked much about but she gets a massive character change and upgrade, her real name is Xiao Meng, Diaochan is an alias for her assassin work, and she turns out to be a he, to be specific a eunuch and because this society hates eunuchs it has made him very inferior and given an identity crisis, and he falls in love with Liaoyuan Huo, a fellow assassin in his camp, but is too disgusted with how he looks to ever confess and eventually Sima Yi has to sacrifice him as a pawn by exposing him as a eunuch in Xiapi for a plan he has going on involving mutiny in Cao Cao's camp

so massive change there, but also wildly more interesting and complex of a character

this just makes the entire character far more complex, engaging and gives a unique interpretation

oh and there's not just philosophy, strategy, tactics, politics, mind games etc., this is based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms afterall which is a wuxia novel and I did mention how Lu Bu was an original one man army, and this novel keeps the superhuman feats of strength, though as it goes on it greatly tones it down to where it doesn't even feel like it exists anymore but there is action, so not just politics and war as you may have been fearing, the first 4 volumes are the most action packed though until Chan Mou (author) found that fans liked his strategies, politics and philosophical aspects more, which is when he began to really tone it down, the manga covers 189-210 A.D. at present (in 484 chapters) and plans to end in 280 A.D.

so Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu and Diaochan got massive upgrades to make them better characters and more interesting and also competent, and because this manga is making everything more convoluted and expanded upon, like a character mentioned on 1 page of the novel even gets a massively expanded role, or when Cao Cao is having his pathetic retreat after losing the Battle of Chibi and trying to make it to Huarong Pass, instead of it ending there it turns into a battle of wits between Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu with a betrayal and a double betrayal carried out by Zuo Ci and Sima Yi etc.

2001 it began serialization, it's technically a manhua (Chinese comic) which is why it's no-hold barred with its historical context, geography, and expects you to be familiar with the novel, I just call it a manga as an umbrella term categorizing Korean, Chinese and Japanese comics

I like the overall realism to how they're drawn even when engaged in combat aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:00:14 AM): but ya XD sorry if i gushed too much, but I love this series and think it's genius jabcom (8/1/17 1:02:07 AM): Don't worry it's fine ^.^ it's always good to express yourself. I enjoy this look the manga is giving him. aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:02:46 AM): Liyaoyuan Huo I mentioned too later gets adopted into Zhao clan and becomes the famous Zhao Yun we know who is a general under Liu Bei aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:02:57 AM): so he becomes a historical domain character too aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:03:31 AM): but ya great stuff jabcom (8/1/17 1:03:37 AM): Ah was wondering how Zhao Yun would get introduced aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:04:00 AM): this is actually something I want to also bring up aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:04:15 AM): this is an interesting thing I find untapped in historical manga jabcom (8/1/17 1:05:02 AM): Also hope Liu Shan isn't still a lazy idiot aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:05:09 AM): The Ravages of Time actually plays intentionally with history and works it into it in a way that you can't necessarily say is untrue, as one of the main themes is that history is not what it seems and written by the winners, for example there's a moment where Zhang Fei is having his painting taken

but instead of how he looks in the manga, he has his picture painted totally different because there's a style of art he was a fan of as a kid and wants to be painted in that similar style aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:06:37 AM): and this manga does that kind of thing a lot, making clear acknowledgements that "this isn't actually what we know in history, but here's a detailed explanation for why it's different and why it leads into what we know in history" aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:07:16 AM): and imo more historical manga should do that and take advantage of its own potential to actually play with history aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:09 AM): as for Liu Shan, won't know until the manga gets to him and his rule yet, historically we have no idea why Zhuge Liang banned historians from the court but I'm sure the manga will come up with some interesting take on those events, especially when there's nothing recorded during that time allowing for more freedom to go all out aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:28 AM): the manga so far has only covered 189-210 A.D. in 484 chapters aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:45 AM): as I mentioned above in the extra bit I added aimforthebarrel (8/1/17 1:09:54 AM): the end of my super long copy and paste fest

he needed to lure out Xiao Meng because he suspected he was an assassin sent to infiltrate the capital and wanted to be lured to the Crippled Legion's camp and trap Sima Yi and outmaneuver the Guandong Alliance

he not only orchestrated the attempted rape with Dong Huang (Dong Zhuo's nephew), but then stood outside "her" door all night fending off the other heirs to Dong Zhuo, and then collapses, then when Xiao Meng goes to help him "Lu Bu" shows up, who's really his most famous body double (Zhang Liao) and then we find out that he was the only one to know of "Diaochan" being Dong Zhuo's secret, and so he must have told the others about her so they'd get into a compromising position trying to take her, and then sends word to Dong Zhuo to notify him of this so they'd be executed, because he's been rising in rank fast by proving his loyalty to Dong Zhuo and all his past rivals ended up executed for treason, then "Lu Bu" says he killed his father and brothers and his father turns out to be a Guandong insider, then of course he fights through the guards and shows Xiao Meng a hidden escape passage, and guards bust threw and she goes to throw needles at them and that's when "Lu Bu" confirms she was infact an assassin, and then he has cavalry men waiting on the other side of the passage and says they're going to save Sima Lang, who's part of the Sima clan obviously and "Diaochan" works for the Sima clan, specifically Sima Yi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:01:51 AM): and then of course we find out that the man the entire time was Lu Bu, and the other "Lu Bu" was a body double (which we later find out is Zhang Liao) etc etc. jabcom (8/2/17 6:03:04 AM): Zhang Liao dies early on? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:03:41 AM): nah, he eventually sheds the identity of a Lu Bu body double though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:03:49 AM): and becomes his own man as it goes on aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:00 AM): but ya, all of this, as well as of course what I explained where Xu Lin (an adviser to Dong Zhuo) is aware Sima Yi will try to have him assassinated so he fakes his own death using a body double, but Liaoyuan Huo is aware of this so fakes a failed assassination to lure out the real Xu Lin, on top of a dozen more plotlines involving the Guandong, and the Eight Geniuses etc etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:09 AM): all of this essentially happens within the first 2-3 volumes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:06:27 AM): and it only gets more crazy from there jabcom (8/2/17 6:10:05 AM): That's a lot of information to take in within just 3 volumes. And I'm assuming that's only going to be half of the chapters being focused on the Sima Yi and Lu Bu situation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:12:13 AM): yeah, a lot of the other chapters focus more on the Guandong Alliance, the Yuan clan, namely what Yuan Fang is doing, what Dong Zhuo is doing with the Liu Xie and that stuff aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:14:00 AM): oh and I do think you'll actually love Dong Zhuo a lot more in this manga, you said you always found him annoying but in this manga he is such an upgrade, especially when having "an honest conversation" with Wang Yun in chapter 60, and how he calls out Yang Yun for plotting, and that "Diaochan" isn't who "she" says she is either aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:17 AM): neither Lu Bu or Dong Zhuo catch onto the fact that Diaochan is actually a male though, eunuch... only people who really know that tend to be Sima Yi, Liaoyuan Huo and a few others, which is probably the only reason he managed to live so long honestly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:38 AM): because both Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo were pretty much onto him from the gate aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:15:55 AM): but he also happened to be their weak points

talk more about Dong Zhuo

ya, I think Lu Bu would have probably ripped him apart the moment he found out he was an assassin but both Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo seem to be more accomodating to a beautiful woman as it's their weakness and they pine after her aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:20:57 AM): I think Lu Bu would be particularly mad though because he had Xiao Meng and them trapped aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:20:59 AM): after his plan aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:26 AM): he got in close to kiss him to try and poison him (that'd never happen if he knew she was a guy) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:43 AM): but if he found out that she was a guy and realized he kissed him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:47 AM): that could go horribly wrong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:21:48 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:18 AM): but ya, Xiao kisses Lu Bu once and had a hidden poison needle in his throat aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:32 AM): Lu Bu saw it coming though and caught it in his teeth aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:47 AM): but what he didn't see was that Xiao also poisoned her lips aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:22:49 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:23:15 AM): only because beautiful women are his weakness, so he wasn't as aware as he'd be otherwise jabcom (8/2/17 6:24:44 AM): Ah beautiful women, the only weakness for the strongest and wisest men in ancient China xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:09 AM): ya XD infact aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:39 AM): Dong Zhuo even says at one point "there's only 2 things that never change in men no matter how old they get, their lustfulness and desire for power" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:25:57 AM): he says this when calling out both Xiao and Wang Yun jabcom (8/2/17 6:27:25 AM): Well.. That's pretty much true xD. Didn't expect a quote like that from Dong Zhuo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:30:22 AM): this Dong Zhuo also loves honesty, he's actually one of the few characters along with Lu Bu who isn't a hypocrit, and during his conversation with Wang Yun says "a real man will reveal everything, I dare to say I'll conquer the world and I acted upon it" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:30:53 AM): and after he's a character that respects honesty, so even if you confess to him your motives after he calls you out, he may let you live anyway jabcom (8/2/17 6:39:59 AM): Actually letting people live after hearing their motives. Definitely a different Dong Zhuo from what I know. I love it. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:03 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:10 AM): this Dong Zhuo is very different aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:44:55 AM): one of my favorite quotes as far as feeding off another character though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:45:40 AM): is when he captures Xiao Meng a second time and he says "didn't I tell you? you can't escape me Diaochan"

and then she replies "so I'm a hostage then?" as she goes towards a hidden knife aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:46:45 AM): then he throws a sword beside her through the table and says "you can call it being "held hostage" but why not say "enjoying the world together"?" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:10 AM): before he sits down onto the table with one hand on the sword he had embedded in it and Xiao just spread out on the table behind him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:17 AM): perfect moment of "cool" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:47:19 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 6:50:26 AM): XD even gets his own cool moment aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:54:23 AM): I'm actually going to just call Xiao Meng a she instead of he from now on actually only because that's how characters see him as, and he is more feminine in personality and I think he does actually identify as a woman to some extent honestly and doesn't mind, even likes being called as such by Liaoyuan Huo who she likes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:54:58 AM): and she's clearly homosexual anyway too because she reacts in a very specific way when encountering Dong Zhuo's manly sexuality for the first time, especially when he openly grabs her to kiss her aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:55:09 AM): and she had some reaction towards Lu Bu initially too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:55:52 AM): all of this is never openly stated or anything, but it's implied and shown over the course of her time in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:56:01 AM): which is what makes her such a complex and interesting character jabcom (8/2/17 6:58:59 AM): Ah poor Dong Zhuo if only he knew xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:41 AM): XD well, what he doesn't know won't hurt him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:49 AM): he got a good make out session with a beautiful woman aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:54 AM): all he needs to be aware off aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 6:59:55 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 7:00:09 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:10 AM): I also love how Sima Yi met his wife aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:17 AM): how he met his wife is interesting in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:43 AM): basically she is in an arranged marriage with Sima Yi, who she doesn't know and has never met, or rather... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:01:46 AM): she thinks she never met aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:02:36 AM): Sima Yi purposely dressed down into peasant clothing and works with horses as a servant and she talks to him about everything, even her feelings on Sima Yi (which are negative, saying he is probably some spoiled brat etc) XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:02:44 AM): little did she realize he was undercover the entire time aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:04:04 AM): then after some conflict

her and her servants get captured and tied up by an enemy faction aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:04:57 AM): then she tries seducing an advisor to try and drive a wedge between him and his current faction etc. but he doesn't fall for her bait and calls her a whore and a slut, and throws her out of the tent and says the soldiers can have their way with her as long as she isn't dead aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:05:56 AM): then Sima Yi still as a hostage and disguised as a servant calls out his hypocrisy that men can sleep with any woman and have many wives but women can't, and says how he actually sees what she did as clever and smart and then promised her he'd make her his wife when they get out of their situation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:06:08 AM): and then she learns that this man has been Sima Yi the entire time aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:06:16 AM): love it jabcom (8/2/17 7:07:32 AM): It's unusually romantic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:08:45 AM): ya, unusually romantic indeed which is why it's so great aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:09:42 AM): they didn't have to do the usual romantic beats for it to be romantic and make sense on why they became in-love because both of their personalities allign and motives etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:09:47 AM): didn't feel forced

nd there's not enough women anyway, there's only really like a few prominent female characters, like Zhang Chun Hua (Sima's wife), Sun Shu, the arranged marriage with Yuan Fang (I forget the name of her, but Yuan Fang pretty much sacrifices her early on anyway) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:36:54 AM): Lady Fan (who's set up as a femme fatale for Zhao Yun and we get like 5 or so volumes with her) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:37:29 AM): and Lady Zhao (who's mentioned on one page of the novel, but in the manga is turned into a chessmaster-type character) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:37:42 AM): only prominent female characters I can really think of aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:38:10 AM): then you also got Xiao Meng which I'll count because of what I've said above aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:38:19 AM): about it though jabcom (8/2/17 7:42:33 AM): I see i thought there would of been at least twice that amount of females but they seem pretty rare aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:42:40 AM): makes sense there aren't that many female characters though, as too many, especially too many with prominent roles would ruin the authenticity of the series, because the series is pretty authentic to the time period and faithful to history and the novel, because this was a time where it's unusual for women to be seen as anything above their societal gender role which is seen from many characters, like the one I mentioned with Zhang Chun Hua where she is called a slut, and whore and dragged out to be raped, or how Dong Huang tried raping Xiao Meng earlier as Diaochan, or that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:00 AM): so it doesn't bug me too much because I'd rather keep the authenticity intact aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:42 AM): and for what little female characters we do get (including Xiao Meng), they're actually well written, interesting, smart (not dumb or even any less smart than the men as Sima's wife is just as clever as him) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:43:56 AM): and very proactive in the plot within their roles aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:45:02 AM): so I personally see no problem with it... now if women were just in the story to be sex objects or window dressing, that'd be bad... even if we got a ton more, but for the few we get, they're actual characters aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:45:35 AM): *actual aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:46:13 AM): there's also probably some other female characters I'm forgetting jabcom (8/2/17 7:51:27 AM): I prefer it this way as well. Having less nurtured characters would make a series much better than many copy cat mindless characters. I just keep forgetting the story isn't too far ahead so I keep wondering where characters such as Xingcai and Lady Zhurong are aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:52:59 AM): � they'll come in eventually aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:05 AM): manga only 210 A.D. right now aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:27 AM): probably won't even get to the actual Three Kingdoms period in 220 A.D. until chapter 700-800 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:53:29 AM): XD

seeing as it's almost 500 chapters and only 189-210 jabcom (8/2/17 7:54:27 AM): Oh gosh x.x well... can't rush perfection so I'll wait patiently xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:54:53 AM): I like how the author is taking his time to go through each year and expanding upon everything aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 7:54:58 AM): and what do you mean by less nurtured characters?

ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:35:33 AM): and in context of the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:35:41 AM): Guo Jia is fucking epic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:36:41 AM): he's regarded as the king of strategy, and planned for the Battle of Guandu 15 years in advance aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:02 AM): and he even had plans within plans within plans to be carried out after he died aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:11 AM): for what would become the Battle of Chibi in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:37:14 AM): to help Cao Cao aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:37 AM): the manga kills him interestingly too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:42 AM): historically he just fell ill aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:38:52 AM): which ofc isn't uncommon in those times aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:39:32 AM): the manga has him make his debut as already ill though, so it's slowly killing him so it feels more like a build up and also explains when he's sometimes not involves because of being bed ridden aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:40:49 AM): and a famous, genius doctor is constantly called upon to check up on him, and the reason he dies is because the doctor was kept away from attending him due to Zhuge Liang's strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:41:02 AM): and then he dies, succumbing to his illness aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:41:09 AM): so I like how that was done jabcom (8/2/17 8:42:34 AM): A great way to take him out jabcom (8/2/17 8:45:04 AM): Doesn't make him look weak all and shows that the battlefield isn't the only dangerous place aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:45:59 AM): exactly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:48:45 AM): idk how you'll like Guo Jia in this version aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:48:56 AM): he is quite different too from his historical and novel counterpart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:49:19 AM): I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:50:42 AM): his debut in the manga is basically him propping himself up as a genocidal maniac where he had Cao Cao massacre 10s of thousands, burn the corpses and surrounding lands, just so 10 more cities can be taken without fighting (as they all surrendered) and then this was further used to flood refugees into Xuzhou and smoke out the city etc etc. and it took Zhuge Liang AND Sima Yi together to really break his initial strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:51:49 AM): Guo Jia then compliments them for defeating his strategy and concedes defeat (I think he could have stopped them if he wanted though but he chose to just remain a bystander to observe how they'd beat his stratagem) Sima Yi in this version is like true neutral, where he's just there for profit and building up the Sima clan for the longest aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 8:58:19 AM): he sees the world as nothing full of evil, so he sees no interest in doing anything greater, and is only motivated to change when the Sima clan massacre was orchestrated by Xu Chu (Xu Lin's son who had a grudge against Sima Yi for having his father assassinated in chapter 3) and some other factors aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:00:07 AM): but he likes making deals, contractors etc. no matter who it is jabcom (8/2/17 9:00:25 AM): That's doing his character much more justice than him being a psychotic leader wanting to take over the three kingdoms just to make a name for himself and in his father's name aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:32 AM): his dream in chapter 1 which I mentioned in my 50 paragraph explanation of how I got into the series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:43 AM): show's an aged Sima Yi who's stricken with madness aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:01:57 AM): so I assume he'll become mad as it gets closer to that point aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:02:16 AM): as a ton of shit has already happened to him and he hasn't exactly had the nicest of times in the series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:00 AM): but ya, he starts out pretty neutral to the point Zhuge Liang even warns Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun to stop serving Sima Yi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:29 AM): because a man with no morals, values, motives etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:03:31 AM): is dangerous aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:04:42 AM): as for Guo Jia, it's not necessarily that he's even evil in the manga, it's just that he believes in the cruelest acts during times of war is a necessity to end war aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:11 AM): as he's a person who believes in the "darkness" ideology aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:28 AM): he's also the most sacrificial in the manga, or one of them aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:05:52 AM): as he willingly lets people view him as a monster, having a horrible reputation aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:06:07 AM): and gives his all for his chosen lord, Cao Cao jabcom (8/2/17 9:06:49 AM): Ah I see. As fuck up as it is he's not exactly wrong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:08:02 AM): ya, I was finding myself torn, because I can completely understand his perspective and it is productive when he managed to conquer 10 more cities without even fighting in the same week aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:08:14 AM): just for slaughtering 1 city and burning it jabcom (8/2/17 9:11:59 AM): I know I'm going to feel mix emotions when I get there lol aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:13:12 AM): ya, when you read the manga though you'll probably have mixed emotions althrough out, like a hard-on for Diaochan, ending up loving Dong Zhuo, not sure how to react to Guo Jia XD etc aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:13:50 AM): I personally love all the character interpretations though and think they're great, and Guo Jiua jabcom (8/2/17 9:14:07 AM): Oh gosh please no I'm straight XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:14:10 AM): Guo Jia is one of my favorites in the manga because I see him as such a complex, tragic character aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:14:37 AM): a tragic hero aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:28 AM): well I meant loving Dong Zhuo as in "ooh he's a pretty awesome character!" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:28 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 9:15:32 AM): I'm glad the strategiest are being as important as they should be aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:15:44 AM): oh ya jabcom (8/2/17 9:15:52 AM): Oh no I meant Diaochan xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:08 AM): he has no balls or dick :'o aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:12 AM): he's almost there aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:16 AM): you'll never notice aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:16:17 AM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 9:16:35 AM): XD not sure how to feel about that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:23 AM): this manga is all about political strife, strategies etc. and while the first 4 volumes are the most action oriented, the author tones it down (as well as the exaggerated feats of strength) when he found that the audience were more accepting of the mindgames, philosophies etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:43 AM): so it's slowly been disappearing and after Lu Bu died it just dropped off greatly aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:17:56 AM): so makes sense the strategists shine the most jabcom (8/2/17 9:22:54 AM): I'm glad that he tone it down. Most people are getting tired of "brute strength is everything" and having something like strategies becoming the primary way to achieve victory is a refreshing and nice feeling aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:24:29 AM): true, although there were still plenty of strategies and stuff even within those first 3 volumes (as I pointed out and explained), Lu Bu and Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun being prime examples of 2 characters who do have brute strength but also honed and refined their mind too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:25:21 AM): even though Lu Bu is a literal 1 man army, he never only relies on that to get out of situations jabcom (8/2/17 9:29:06 AM): Yes I'm glad he also relied on strategies too, it makes him even more of a monster and even more of a accomplishment for cao cao to kill him. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:29:49 AM): oh definitely, but just wanted to point out even when the series was at its most action packed jabcom (8/2/17 9:29:53 AM): Speaking of Lu Bu do they introduce Lu Lingqi or does he not have a daughter in the manga? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:29:57 AM): lots of strategies, and all of that stuff was still there he has a daughter, but I don't remember if the manga uses her Romance of the Three Kingdoms name or doesn't mention it at all (like actual historical documents as we have no idea what his daughters name was) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:31:54 AM): so I can't remember the manga ever specifically calling her Li Lingqi though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:32:50 AM): Lu Lingqui is also unnamed in the novel too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:01 AM): only the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games gave her a name afterall aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:17 AM): so I think his daughter in the manga if memory serves right actually goes unnamed aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:33:58 AM): but Lu Bu considers her his prize, and she's the one thing who he really loves above all aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:20 AM): which makes it such a heartbreaking moment when Xu Chu reveals he wasn't slow witted and was plotting the downfall of Lu Bu in secret aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:30 AM): and cut his daughter in half before his eyes, when she was like 7 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:34:39 AM): and Lu Bu just fucking broke jabcom (8/2/17 9:34:50 AM): Oh shit aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:04 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:16 AM): never seen Lu Bu so distraught and unhinged in the entire series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:19 AM): before that moment aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:36:35 AM): he let out a real loud cry of anguish and anger aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:30 AM): kind of interesting though, how the reason Lu Bu even lost at Xiapi in the manga and had to witness his daughter die and have himself executed aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:52 AM): is ALL because of EVERY SINGLE time he backstabbed someone, or said something to someone aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:37:58 AM): and it just all came back to bite him in his ass aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:14 AM): Xu Chu who was plotting against him as revenge for Xu Lin aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:25 AM): Jia Xu who was plotting against him for Dong Huang and Dong Zhuo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:38:49 AM): the fact he told Cao Cao at the beginning of the manga that he'll do anything to get out alive so he can come back aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:04 AM): and Cao Cao remembered those words when considering whether to execute him or let him live aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:25 AM): but also what he did to Liu Bei and how Liu Bei helped sway Cao Cao's judgment because of past interactions aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:39:39 AM): literally everything Lu Bu did in the past, or said, came back to fuck him up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:02 AM): the live actions show him as a baby faced immature, brash kid, who just wants to have fun and prematurely take control of stuff when he gets in possession of his OWN strategist, as Chen Gong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:19 AM): and the games, don't go this route thankfully... but aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:27 AM): he's still consistently depicted as a dumb muscle aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:29 AM): regardless aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:45:39 AM): and is just stupid but stupidly powerful aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:27 AM): basically aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:31 AM): he's a paper tiger aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:42 AM): he crumbles the moment you bring a competent strategist to the battle field XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:46:54 AM): which is why he needed Chen Gong to even last as long as he did jabcom (8/2/17 9:46:55 AM): Perfect description xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:47:31 AM): yeah XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:47:36 AM): whereas in this version aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:48:51 AM): he's a seasoned, matured warrior, who's honed his intellectual capacity, is a skilled strategist, tactician and politician, competent at mindgames and reading people, but is also patient, but also his own developed, thought out ideologies and philosophies, and has things that genuinely are close to his heart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:13 AM): and how he is defeated isn't because he's just stupid and Chen Gong gets outsmarted aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:28 AM): it's because all his past backstabbings come back to bite him in the ass by culminating at Xiapi aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:36 AM): after he's already mentally broken aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:49:40 AM): he's then physically broken aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:50:27 AM): also very cultured too aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 9:50:31 AM): as he is well read jabcom (8/2/17 10:01:04 AM): His own will to do whatever he can to survive got him killed.. I like that aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:06 AM): yup aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:17 AM): it's kind of that tragic irony at play aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:20 AM): which is great aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:03:35 AM): I just like the fact that the reason he lost and died is purely because of himself actually now that I think about it though... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:11 AM): there has never been a single time Lu Bu has lost a fight when he's at 100%, like he lost to Liaoyuan Huo early on but because of the poison really kicking into his body from Xiao Meng's kiss, and he previously had fought 2 other crippled assassin's under Sima Yi before Liaoyuan showed up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:32 AM): and he lost to Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei but only because was gravely injured, wounded, exhausted etc. already aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:35 AM): before fighting aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:11:57 AM): I think Lu Bu is probably the strongest character in the entire manga, even when Ma Chao is introduced aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:05 AM): or even current Liaoyuan Huo aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:23 AM): I don't think anyone compared to how strong Lu Bu is depicted in this series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:12:47 AM): this man shits on his novel counterpart, not just in the obvious intelligence but also in physical feats jabcom (8/2/17 10:15:53 AM): I'm happy about that he deserved to be known as the strongest of that era. Even though Guan Yu's my favorite and I enjoy the 1v1's they had in the animes, no one should really be able to beat Lu Bu, at least not without many strategies xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:16:53 AM): ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:16:56 AM): I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:26 AM): from splitting a mountain, to defeating an army of 250,000 and walking through a Persian style arrow flurry aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:32 AM): the man is a fucking beast XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:43 AM): and what's interesting aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:17:55 AM): is I think he gets stronger and more skilled when Chen Gong joins him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:18:06 AM): because now he is able to hone his physical prowess even more aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:18:20 AM): while Chen Gong becomes the chief strategist and advisor jabcom (8/2/17 10:20:44 AM): Well shit I thought the most he done in there was slice someone in half with no effort but a fucken mountain? Geez xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:09 AM): slicing a man in half is pretty awesome but... aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:41 AM): he once punched a mans entire fucking torso off into a bloodstain with his bare fist, just casual, because he was talking and interupting his thinking aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:21:44 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:22:08 AM): like and that man was full plated in armor jabcom (8/2/17 10:22:13 AM): What is this fist of the North star? XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:22:19 AM): hold up aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:28:11 AM): he also beat like 4 of Cao Cao's strongest generals at once so Lu Bu is strong as fuck in this manga and lives up to his reputation in the novel aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:29:52 AM): https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4030033 Lu Bu taking off a guys torson 1 handed without a weapon jabcom (8/2/17 10:36:07 AM): Jesus Christ aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:38:01 AM): so ya, there's plenty of strategy, tactics, politics, philosophical discussions, all that jazz, but I don't think you'll be too disappointed with characters either when it comes to their physical feats, because this manga does have that wuxia aspect and give characters their superhuman feats if they're supposed to have it, although like I said it tones down after volume 4 and after Lu Bu dies, we don't see anything completely "wtf" insane aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:38:32 AM): which is why I say Lu Bu is easily the strongest character in this entire manga just based off of his feats alone aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:39:00 AM): Lu Bu is a fucking monster though jabcom (8/2/17 10:42:27 AM): Indeed he is. It was a good time to tone down as well as I don't think people would enjoy other warriors having feats anywhere near close to his. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:20 AM): ya, I think the author specifically singals out Lu Bu because he is considered "among men, there is only Lu Bu" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:31 AM): so it was appropriate to make him strong aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:36 AM): although aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:42 AM): it could be argued this Lu Bu aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:52 AM): BECAUSE he is also so intelligent aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:43:58 AM): is disgustingly overpowered aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:09 AM): but eh oh well aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:17 AM): still my 2nd favorite character in the series XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:44:58 AM): and I actually don't mind the action or over the topness as much here because of the art and what kind of series this is aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:45:33 AM): it's Romance of the Three Kingdoms so I go into it especting wuxia elements (like gliding through the air style wuxia, but superhuman martial arts style wuxia) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:45:51 AM): and the art is extremely detailed and realistic aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:01 AM): characters move how they're supposed to and have a weighty feel to them aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:27 AM): and nothing happens to a character where you go "okay, how is he alive?" minus maybe like 1 aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:46:59 AM): which is Dian Wei aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:47:24 AM): because he like gets cut in half but his will to serve Cao Cao is so strong he's still alive, but ofc he dies aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:47:44 AM): but it's like "god damn, dat will to serve is strong!" orthebarrel (8/2/17 10:48:22 AM): but minus him aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:48:46 AM): no characters are surviving things that don't make sense aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:14 AM): well he doesn't survive anyway I guess aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:21 AM): but I mean he didn't instantly die aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:27 AM): he died like 3 secs later aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:28 AM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:30 AM): still aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:49:55 AM): and ya btw about the wuxia aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:12 AM): the fights aren't you punch I dodge, or I take a hit to the face and go back and laugh aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:47 AM): even as strong as Lu Bu is, nobody has steel skin, and a simple needle could cut him as they're still human aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:50:58 AM): they just have superhuman capabilities in reflexes, speed, strength aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:17 AM): so when you see fights for example aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:39 AM): the art shows characters actually dodging, performing acrobatics, blocking hits with their weapons etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:51:45 AM): actual martial arts basically aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:07 AM): and during these battles you'll have awesome team work usually when it's more than 1 against Lu Bu aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:17 AM): or battle analysis and strategy aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:52:29 AM): during the combat aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:53:18 AM): so there's tactics and a game of chess played out sometimes during the fights, coupled with realistic and detailed art and martial arts on display aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:53:44 AM): creating a convincing and realistic fight even if the characters involved have superhuman physicality like Guan Yu, Zhang Fei etc. jabcom (8/2/17 10:56:24 AM): Ah I see so even if they have overwhelming strength, a simple mistake can lead them to their death from a much weaker opponent aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:07 AM): yeah, because they're still human afterall and if they had steel hard to skin and could easily recover from vital injuries, it'd break the overall realism, and authenticity and also make you question how characters can be executed or even brought down aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:39 AM): so really the only superhuman aspects they have are what its genre (wuxia) typically shows and what the novel describes aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:51 AM): which is speed, reflexes, strength, agility aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 10:58:53 AM): about it aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:00 AM): in The Ravages of Time, Xiao Meng is able to shoot very far too, but the only time she's able to shoot even remotely as far as archers in Kingdom is when she has one of those body bows, and uses her legs to hold it as she uses both hands to pull back the string aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:17 AM): so in that case, it's a specialized oversized bow made for those type of long shots aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:41:39 AM): nobody in the manga has used a regular bow though and come close to what an archer in Kingdom does aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 11:42:38 AM): but I just assume the bows in Kingdom are made out of some magic elf wood and magic imbued string so in this series aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:15 PM): you know how I mentioned Sima Hui/ Shuijing during my long initial explanation? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:26 PM): like how Lu Bu read Suijing's thesis On Morale aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:18:29 PM): and applied it? aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:19:49 PM): Shuijing is a teacher in the manga who teaches the Eight Geniuses aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:20:04 PM): technically they're called the Eight Enigmas aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:20:56 PM): and basically the Eight Enigmas are 8 military advisors who are considered 8 of the best of their era, and they all wear identical uniforms and masks so you can't tell them apart aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:21:27 PM): and the only time they shed their uniform and mask is when they choose a lord to serve aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:21:45 PM): and they're so good even a dimunitive lord can rise to great heights if one becomes his advisor jabcom (8/2/17 12:22:37 PM): Hm I have a feeling I heard of this before but don't fully remember it aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:23:26 PM): the Eight Enigmas consist of Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Zhuge Liang, Yuan Fang, Zhou Yu, Pang Tong, Xun Yu and Zhao Yun (not Liaoyuan Huo/Zhao Yun though, but someone else from the Zhao clan who's the real Zhao Yun) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:25:10 PM): so the manga takes a totally different approach to this aspect aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:25:42 PM): and it kind of adds an air of further mystery too especially when for the long everyone was curious who the Eighth would be etc. Guo Jia is great though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:16 PM): I do love Jia Xu though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:21 PM): especially in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:37:48 PM): he chose his lord to be Dong Zhuo (as I mentioned above how he was part of Lu Bu's downfall at Xiapi for wanting revenge) aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:04 PM): one thing I love about Jia Xu is his reputation though aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:14 PM): he said he'd take only 1/3rd of the army aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:19 PM): and beat Lu Bu in 5 days aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:43 PM): Lu Bu is like "let's him try" aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:38:52 PM): and 5 days go by and Lu Bu gets rekt jabcom (8/2/17 12:39:03 PM): XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:07 PM): Jia Xu is so well known for his "badass boast" too in the manga aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:25 PM): that he uses it to fake out Liu Bei, because he gives a badass boast about beating Liu Bei aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:37 PM): and it's enough to scare Liu Bei to keep behind his walls for 10 days aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:47 PM): allowing Jia Xu to remobilize and get back into the fight aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:39:48 PM): XD jabcom (8/2/17 12:40:40 PM): He's just bitching everyone out I see xD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:11 PM): haha ya aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:35 PM): Zhou Yu is great too, he chooses to serve Sun Ce aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:41:59 PM): Sun Ce is awesome aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:42:43 PM): one thing I like about Sun Ce is how the manga dives into some PTSD aspects of his character, because he has this dream where he sees his father on the battlefield and he walks up to him and his father doesn't even recognize him jabcom (8/2/17 12:48:02 PM): It's a highly possible case I'm honestly surprise they don't have more PTSD situation for these types mangas aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:48:35 PM): same, I mean aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:49:57 PM): even in the Ancient World, while people were more immune to violence and war and PTSD was only first called PTSD in 1980, as before that during WWI it was battle fatigue, shell shocked etc. aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:08 PM): but... people are still fucking people are you tell me nobody has gotten PTSD in the millenniums of war just because people were more used to it back then? XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:47 PM): there are tons of documented possible PTSD cases too in history aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:53 PM): they just weren't called PTSD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:50:59 PM): nobody knew what they were XD aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 12:52:00 PM): so I definitely like that The Ravages of Time adds a PTSD element to it (as I think almost everything is really add in this manga honestly at some point) similar to how in A Song of Ice and Fire that series of books also has an element of PTSD in its characters

ONE PIECE: one of the things I love about One Piece though is the nuances in characterization, like, okay, the characterization isn't brilliant, it's not going to make you walk away thinking "wow, that is such a deeply complex character", but it is competent, and there are moments of nuances, for example, take Luffy, he's relatively simple minded, gullible even and definitely uneducated, which makes sense given his upbringing as he had no education... but when challenged by the concept of death when looking for the One Piece, he simply said "well, if I die then I die and there's nothing I can do about it", and to me this was rather interesting as a main protagonist of a shonen series because usually it'd be a "ha! I won't die, because I'm going to fullfill my dreams!" but not Luffy, and this sort of realist perspective is consistent even up to the Alabasta Arc when he punches Vivi and says "people are going to die, you can't stop that, it's war and people die in war, but what we can do is go kick Crocodile's ass!", to me this is why I like Luffy, because sure... he's dumb, but he's never naive about the world he inhabits, he's never overly idealistic, he's actually much closer to a realist in these moments

another example is when Usopp is about to ask Rayleigh about the One Piece and Luffy says "I don't want to know where it is, or even IF there is a One Piece" and what's so interesting about this is that it really encapsulates the series, this is a series about adventure, and the journey along the way, everyone as he says sets out to find the One Piece, it's not about whether there even is a One Piece, it's about the idea behind it that inspires people, and to Luffy, he refuses to have a boring adventure because that isn't what he wants, he wants to have a fun adventure with people he can call his friends, and this is why the immense length of the series works in its favor because this is what it's about at its core, One Piece is a comedy adventure mystery, it's also a battle manga but it's more than that

and similary, this is why I can respect Oda so much as a writer, because every now and then characters will spew philosophical dialogue and viewpoints that make you think like "oh, wow that's something I never thought about before" or "wow, there's a lot to this character" like how Doflamingo said during Marineford "Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!'

and this is something I got to love about it, One Piece as I said isn't the most brilliant example of complex or nuanced characterization, but the simple fact that it's still competent, aimforthebarrel (8/2/17 2:34:30 PM): and consistent and nuanced enough, and does offer up those "wow, that's introspective" every now and then is something I respect in Oda as a writer