Thread:LucidPigeons/@comment-6489422-20150725153720/@comment-6489422-20150725163334

I'm actually NOT going by the original definition. I personally think that basing this sort of trope purely on audience response was never a good idea since audiences are not a Hive Mind and everyone will feel differently about certain villains. That said, TVT takes things a bit too far the other way, trying to make the trope as objective as possible so that it allows for next to no subjectivity in deciding who's "factually" a CM or not. I think a balance of objectivity and subjectivity is what's needed for the trope and that's what I'm always trying to look for when evaluating candidates or supposed examples - that's what the ATT definition is going for. You say "this trope is subjective", but subjective is the opposite of what TVT wants it to be, hence why it's so heavily policed and restrictive to the point of being arbritary about it. If the Wiki deems an example a CM, they're a CM, and if they vote an example down, they're not a CM, not allowed to be seen as a CM by anyone, not allowed to be referenced as being seen as a CM anywhere else on the wiki, and not allowed to be cited as one on any other site, apparently. At least that's the idea I got from how TVT's policies have spread to sites like this one.

You shouldn't have to view the CM trope any differently than how you used to based on a single character, or hate a character who's meant to be hated anyway simply because people hold an opinion of him that you don't agree with. I'll admit that I fully formed my own views on the CM trope after the Ghetsis debacle, but he was more "the straw that broke the camel's back" rather than the single instigator - before him there was Hopper, Syndrome, Scar, Yakone, and Turbo. After my unpleasant TVT experiences, I redefined what qualifies a CM to myself in order to mentally bring that trope to a place of subjective-objective balance that I wished it could have. Nowadays I actually think that Yakone was too vague an example to qualify as a full-fledged CM like Ozai or Unalaq, and that Ghetsis would NOT qualfiy as a CM going on his showing in BW alone - it's his role and actions in B2W2 in combination with those in BW that soldify his status to me.