Thread:Overseer80/@comment-25030828-20140606141700/@comment-15895329-20140607135554

We're still doing this? Alright, fine. If I must, I must.

1. No, Lotso DID mention it in the dumpster scene when Woody brought it up and he then tried to evoke sympathy. But as Woody pointed out, it doesn't work. So to me it's the same thing. When Woody brings up Daisy, Lotso is shown to still feel emotional pain from those events and then tries to evoke sympathy by claiming that Daisy abandoned him, even though it's nonsense. Similarly, Shen's showing emotional pain from past events and then trying to use a blatant lie to evoke sympathy is similarly ineffective as far as making him a genuinely tragic figure. I feel that both of them are in genuine anguish, but what keeps either of them from being sympathetic (to me) is how pretty much all of their pain is a result of their own choices and actions.

In addition, Shen also continues on with his villainy, including killing his right-hand for disobeying him (not to mention that supplementary materials indicate that was his only friend) and (in another Lotso comparison) was given the perfect opportunity to redeem himself...and turned it down. The similarities between them are so strong to me that any disparity between them is not significant enough to make much of a difference to me. Shen's being a death-seeker also doesn't do much to make him sympathetic, because Owlman tried to kill himself along with everyone else in existence, and that just makes him come off as a pure evil nihilist. Cutler Beckett from PotC accepted his death when he realized the jig was up. So that doesn't do it for me either.

As to Oldman's portrayal being described as sympathetic, I seem to remember it being said on TV Tropes that the writers deliberately made Shen's excuse very weak. So there's clashing reports there.

2. Personally, I'm still gonna chalk that up to Virtuously Vile. And again, his not hurting her prior to abandoning her could just be written off as pragmatic villainy. Yes, he doesn't get rid of her in a violent manner, but again I'd say that's Virtuously Vile. I also think it is extremely generous to say he treats her like family. He does not seek out her advice outside of her prophecies, she approaches him with her thoughts, and he always deflects them. That doesn't seem like a terribly familial relationship.

3. Really? Because during my time on the site, I remember it being claimed that...

Pre Vizsla cared about his men and his people despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Joseph Stalin had positive qualities

Liking a villain AT ALL for ANY REASON is Draco In Leather Pants

Miranda Lawson is a baby-devouring monster

Syndrome and Scar have "sympathetic backstories" but Darth Bane and Zannah don't.

...yeah. You can see why I don't go to that site anymore. I lost the will to keep fighting what was more and more looking like a completely humorless community who tended to dispute basically everything I said.