Thread:LostGod2000/@comment-27818776-20140901142846/@comment-1672596-20140904123345

Aesop's Feast wrote: Weedle McHairybug wrote:

Yeah, and in the context of Star Wars, Darth Vader also was utterly and remorselessly heinous in the context of the story, even being considered pure evil even 100 years after his death if Legacy is anything to go by, despite his redemption, yet he wasn't a Complete Monster, either.

And when the person you're deeply paranoid about an entity who, BTW, is basically like Big Brother from 1984, watching every action you make, being unable to be fooled at all, and more than willing and capable to destroy you when he has the opportunity and chance, which is pretty much every time, like God does, yes, that definitely qualifies as remorse, or at least the closest thing one can get to actual remorse anyways. He'd only not have remorse if he actually intended to trick God, and someone as religiously pious as him would know full well such is a fruitless action. The only way fear of punishment would not apply as regret is if you actually know you have a chance at actually deceiving the guy above you, sort of like Jafar did have some degree of fear of being punished by Sultan Hasad in Aladdin (and for good reason, since he attempted to usurp the throne and did everything he could to hide any indications that he was going to betray him and take control until Prince Ali/Aladdin broke his control, literally.), or how Kefka tried to deceive Emperor Gestahl for most of the game until the opportunity arose to backstab them (or until they were caught, in the case of Jafar). In other words, if Frollo was truly unremorseful, he'd actually think he had a chance at fooling God (like how Kefka Palazzo fooled Emperor Gestahl and everyone around him right before murdering the former and blowing up the world; or how Bill Clinton fooled everyone with that false apology regarding Monica Lewinsky [and in the case of Clinton, even when credible evidence came about, he actually denied it all the way until the blue dress was exposed]), and he'd know full well that God cannot be fooled, period, hence, remorse.

Again, they should have made him more like Phillipe Augustine from Eternal Darkness, you know, a guy who pretends to serve Christianity, yet in reality, in secret, was a Satan Worshipper (well, technically Phillipe Augustine never worshipped Satan as much as an eldritch abomination Ancient, but ultimately the same principle), as that would make his lack of remorse more blatant and especially obvious (as, again, when dealing with an all-powerful, all-knowing entity who would more than enjoy punishing people when He has the chance to do so when they die, paranoia is indeed the closest thing to remorse. God himself is remorseless precisely because he has absolutely nothing to fear and can do whatever he pleases.). That would have also pushed an even more Christian message for the film version anyways, showcasing Satanism as a very bad thing. Yeah, it may be too adult to do that, but then again, the film itself was too adult anyways, and considering it was derived from a High School literary text, that is too adult (my mom felt the film should not have been made). And let me point out that God absolutely lacks remorse precisely because he lacks fear, and in fact enjoys harming people, despite what the Bible claims. If he didn't, he wouldn't blow up Sodom and Gomorrah, and he wouldn't tell Saul to commit genocide at all. Precisely. Darth Vader redeemed himself, which means that he can no longer qualify as a CM. My point in that last line was just that having a mass-murdering rapist labelled a CM does not mean that a tyrannical, nihilistic bear toy who didn't murder anyone cannot be a CM.

... And yet Frollo continues on his rampage despite him being aware that God is watching his every move. Besides, fear is an emotion that arises in response to a threat. There is absolutely no link to remorse. You have to recognise that remorse is when you think: Oh no, I have done something wrong and I feel really bad about it and for the person whom I have wronged. Remorse is not: Oh no, I'm going to get punished by some (way) higher authority.

I know what you are trying to get at – that people will be good if they fear punishment from a higher authority, but that is self-restraint, motivated by the fear of getting yourself hurt. Remorse is something you have to automatically feel when you realise that you have done wrong, not something that is imposed upon you by means of fear.

Actually, no, remorse is never something you "automatically feel." In fact, most humans, by your definition, are by their very nature remorseless precisely because it isn't automatic, ever since the fall in fact. Humanity doesn't have an innate sense of right or wrong, it is only imposed on us by God. The French Revolution and various Communist revolutions, which were predicated on the humanistic, enlightenment-based lie that humanity is innately good and can determine right or wrong without a God forcing it on them, more than made that apparent, all of the death and bloodshed and suffering that made even the Inquisition seem like a playful wrestling match by kids in comparison. And God lacks remorse since he lacks fear of a higher authority. Do you truly believe he didn't enjoy blowing up Sodom and Gomorrah? He actually enjoyed it entirely and would do it again and again for his own amusement. God relishes in fear of punishment from him, and He also lacks remorse for blowing it up, if he did, he wouldn't have done it in the first place.