Ellie I’m not sure but Joel is for potentially dooming humanity (although unclear if they were even competent enough to make a vaccine given logs) and a lot of at best questionable actions including a criminal record (he was a smuggler) not simply for killing in the situation. I haven’t played The Last of Us 2 but I only heard of one moment potentially pushing her and even then she wasn’t intentionally or aware of it at the time the woman was pregnant.