Can someone tell me why are using tvtropes as a reference here? Last I saw, we do things differently here. We discuss it here among each other, not use tvtropes as a yardstick.
Can someone tell me why are using tvtropes as a reference here? Last I saw, we do things differently here. We discuss it here among each other, not use tvtropes as a yardstick.
Personally, I don't really think that's the issue, and, honestly, there IS such a thing as an unofficial villain. Whether or not the audience is meant to perceive a character as a villain is immaterial; what matters is the actions and behaviors of the character that determines if they're a villain or not.
For example, I don't think Arrowverse Oliver Queen is meant to be seen as an official villain. However, his list of murders, tortures, plus skinning someone alive all combine to ensure that, whether the writers intend for him to be seen as such or not, he ultimately counts as an Anti-Villain vigilante in the vein of the Punisher.
To give another example, Rhett Butler from Gone with the Wind: the writers did not intend for audiences to see him as a villain. But between fighting for slavery and later seemingly raping his wife and then callously abandoning her, he counts as a villain, regardless of the author's intent.
So again, if you're arguing that there is no such thing as an unofficial villain, then I disagree wholesale. But if you agree with me that there IS such a thing, then good to know we're on the same page. But either way, I don't really think that's the issue at hand here.
No. No such thing as an "unofficial villain". Either someone is or is not.
If anyone wishes to have discussions they are afraid will be shut down by an Admin which does not violate VW or Fandom rules, feel free to have it on my wall. I never close or delete things from my wall.
If anyone wishes to have discussions they are afraid will be shut down by an Admin which does not violate VW or Fandom rules, feel free to have it on my wall. I never close or delete things from my wall.
I don't really agree with that. Not everyone agrees on who is a villain and who isn't, so it ISN'T completely binary or unambiguous. For every character that is fairly unambiguously evil, there are ones for whom it is more debtable. I myself don't consider Catwoman to be a villain, and yet here she is. And, honestly, once someone like Selina is on this site, then a lot of other characters deserve to be here as well.
And by "unofficial villain" I mean a character who the writers don't necessarily intend to be seen as a villain but nevertheless is seen that way because of the badness of their actions. That's an "unofficial villain". A character who doesn't have "I'm a Villain" or "He's a Villain" in bright neon letters over his head, but still counts as one based on what he does.
Looks like this subject can't be left alone if even admins are willing to argue about it. I feel this should be left to a vote, then perhaps write something in the rules about what is decided.
I have no idea why everyone is just ignoring my previous comment on that message wall discussion. There is no "TV Tropes is always right" rule to begin with. Complete Monster and Pure Evil are the EXACT same thing, just with a rename. They have the same criteria. So if a villain qualifies as a Complete Monster, they should also qualify for Pure Evil since the two have the same criteria.
I think people here already know that the two are the same. However, what's considered as "Complete Monster" on tropes might not always mean it's also considered "Pure Evil" on this Wiki. People have different opinions about character(s) actions and such.
Tell you guys what, since I got so tired of you complaining about the rules and TV Tropes I created a wiki called villains-tropes.wikia.com if a villain is listed on TV Tropes or you want to add tropes that are listed there then come to my wiki.
How do you mean it's gonna work?
Basically it's a wiki where if a character is listed under TV Tropes as a villain. you can add them on my site.
For example here's my page for Diamond Tiara on my site. Feel free to come on and edit. villains-tropes.wikia.com/wiki/Diamond_Tiara?venotify=created