Been observing this wikia, as well as Heroes, and I've got to ask, What is the focus of this wikia??
I'm seeing a LOT of characters which really DO NOT fit the characterization of "villian". Who are more simply "antagonists".
For example, Nina Harper. Braceface, the franchise she comes from is best described as "a slice of life" show. The stories revolve around normal child and teenage problems. There are no "villains" in the sense of serving "Capital-E Evil". And therefore also no "heroes". On the Braceface wikia we replaced Category:Villains with Category:Antagonists. Which is more of what Nina Harper is.
And I'm finding *other* characters which fit this Not Evil characterization.
So I'm asking, What is the focus of this wikia? Evil or just Not the Protagonists?
Cause if the latter, this wikia is going to be HUGE. If the former, there are pages which need to be pruned from here.
Incidentally, as I see many of the same editors on Heroes as here, perhaps this discussion should also address the opposite, Capital-G Good Guy HEROES, or simply Protagonists for over there. --Love Robin (talk) 00:24, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
- If you find a page that doesn't belong here, just mark it for deletion and the admins will do their thing. Welcome to your doom! 00:33, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Well, my taking action could be construed as vandalizing/trolling as there are IMO quite a few which fit "non-evil antagonists" category. Which is why I'd like a discussion and ruling on what really belongs on here (and conversely, Heroes Wiki). After all, perhaps *I'm* in the wrong and—as a Kim Possible deleted scene said about Bonnie Rockwaller (who also doesn't belong here)—"high school evil" belongs…???
- My take on "Villain" is Captial-E EVIL, and not just anyone who is troublesome to a franchise's protagonists. --Love Robin (talk) 00:52, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
- The standards of a slice-of-life show are quite different from that of an action genre. There are no mustache twirling monsters, supervillains, or murderers in the genre. They are not out to conquer or murder people. Overall, we look out their intent, their role in conflict, and how their actions harm the setting.Tearface (talk) 07:48, December 25, 2015 (UTC)
Except…
According to the Rules They really do not belong on Villains Wiki.
- 6.1 Jerk ≠ Villain
- (Italics mine)
- Please be mindful not to add a character to this wiki unless he or she is established as a villain in their setting
- 6.2 Flawed Hero ≠ Villain
- (Italics mine)
- The number of articles about anti-heroic characters is no longer acceptable - this is a VILLAINS Wiki and we need to keep it that way. Being a simple "jerk" will no longer be valid. A character should have either malicious intent or be actually dangerous to count. From now on "grumpy", "not nice" or "mean" as reasons for a character being here will be ignored and the content erased - start showing us actual deeds that are malicious (and NO, name-calling and minor "bullying" will not count anymore). This is similar to the above rule but will sum up to "just because something offends you does not make it evil / immoral" - from now on PROVE to us the character is criminal, immoral or dangerous, otherwise we will erase it.
- 6.3 Antagonist ≠ Villain
- (Italics mine)
- Most people tend to confuse these two terms. By definition, antagonist is a character who opposes the protagonist/protagonists, while villain is a wicked character who does evil. While they may overlap, they are completely different things. That being said, do not add pages for antagonists who aren't shown as being evil/wicked, especially if they are good characters or on the side of law.
- 6.1 says they must be "established as a villain in their setting." Established. Not Fan speculated or reasoned.
- 6.2 says being Jerks is not enough and not valid.
- 6.3 explains the difference between an antagonist and a villain, that the latter "is a wicked character who does evil" and not to add characters "especially if they are good characters or on the side of law".
Now, Sharpay Evans is an antagonist for most of her franchise, yet for all her scheming she falls short of wicked doing evil as they are not "criminal, immoral or dangerous"(6.2), and just because what she did "offends you does not make it evil / immoral (6.2)"
Sam Puckett is a protagonist, in specific, the series' deuteragonist. Despite her flaws and being a jerk—not valid per 6.2—she is nonetheless "a good guy" and "on the side of the law(6.3)" especially thanks to Carly Shay's influences, and also is not wicked doing evil.
According to the criteria in these Rules neither of these characters are fitting for this wikia since per 6.3 they should not be added.
Apparently Rules—not my rules, the rules of this wikia—which have either not been read or followed, been ignored, or have yet to be properly enforced. And there are plenty more pages which do not meet the criteria presented in the Rules.
--Love Robin (talk) 00:26, December 26, 2015 (UTC)