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History: Martin Brenner

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  • curprev 16:0916:09, 14 March 2024‎ Makyzi143! Message Wall contribs‎ 18,042 bytes +21‎ Undo revision 6315527 by SW10048 (talk) Nothing implies he didn’t redeem himself. If anything, him risking his entire life to save Eleven and her redeeming him before his last moments is enough just by itself. Tags: Undo Mobile edit Mobile web edit
  • curprev 15:1615:16, 14 March 2024‎ SW10048 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,021 bytes −21‎ Not convinced he outright redeemed himself, he certainly became somewhat less unsympathetic but he still refused to admit he did anything wrong and spent his last breath continuing to try and manipulate El. There's a reason she pointedly doesn't tell him she forgives him when he asks her to. Tags: Reverted Source edit

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  • curprev 20:1820:18, 29 December 2023‎ Ian565878 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,064 bytes −27‎ After hearing about what he does in the play, I am comfortable removing the Anti-Villain category. While he does well-intentioned goals to use the children as weapons against the Soviet Union to protect his country and stop Vecna from destroying the planet, the way that he tried to use Henry to kill Patty and his overall portrayal makes him a bit less sympathetic to be an Anti-Villain. He's like Thanos in that he does have sympathetic goals, but it's not enough for him to qualify. Tag: Source edit
  • curprev 19:5119:51, 29 December 2023‎ Kodikos Message Wall contribs‎ 18,091 bytes +33‎ Nvm, I talked with Fower and he says he pointed out that he is kinda responsible for things happening Tag: Source edit
  • curprev 19:3619:36, 29 December 2023‎ Kodikos Message Wall contribs‎ 18,058 bytes −103‎ Actually, nvm it seems like Mind Flayer might be main and Henry might be secondary, with him being less influential than the Mind Flayer. Correct me if I'm wrong tho. Tag: Source edit
  • curprev 19:0619:06, 29 December 2023‎ Kodikos Message Wall contribs‎ 18,161 bytes +97‎ He was just as responsible for Henry's downfall as the Mind FLayer it seems Tag: Source edit

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  • curprev 00:0000:00, 13 December 2023‎ Kodikos Message Wall contribs‎ 18,053 bytes −27‎ What was already hinted towards in Season 4 and seems to be outright confirmed is that Martin isn't the catalyst for the events in the series happening. Henry/Vecna outright admits he was a monster even before Brenner experimented on him and even calls him "just a mere man", beliving him to just be a minor setack in his plans. The upcoming play is suggesting if not confirming that Henry got possessed by the MF which is what turned him evil, which would make that the overarching antagonist. Tag: Source edit

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  • curprev 00:1500:15, 20 April 2023‎ Ian565878 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,242 bytes −5‎ I've talked with other users about this and they seem to agree with me, and Word of God confirms this in this interview, as they say he was using the children not just as weapons against the Soviets, but for science. "Not just" implies that he still had a noble goal regardless of his curiosity (https://deadline.com/2022/07/stranger-things-duffer-brothers-interview-season-five-1235058041/). Tag: Visual edit
  • curprev 00:1100:11, 20 April 2023‎ Ian565878 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,247 bytes +26‎ There are several scenes in season one where he is using Eleven as a spy against the Soviets; in fact, the whole government program that Brenner was working for was designed to use the children as weapons against the Soviets. So yes, there is evidence that he did have a noble goal, even if his methods were extreme. Not only that even if it were the case that he wasn't an anti-villain early in the show, he would become this later on, as there is nothing selfish about his intentions in s4. Tag: Source edit

14 April 2023

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  • curprev 12:5112:51, 7 March 2023‎ Fower42 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,350 bytes −26‎ Undo revision 5418255 by JoeMere (talk). Also, there’s nothing mentally wrong with him as far as I can tell. He’s perfectly functional in everyday life and capable of empathy. He seems to be neurotypical, with slight (but ultimately vague) hints of narcissism. Tag: Undo
  • curprev 12:4912:49, 7 March 2023‎ Fower42 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,376 bytes −26‎ Undo revision 5411746 by Ian565878 (talk). You’re missing the point. Vecna said that because it was the truth, he was correct and had no reason to lie to El in that moment. Regardless, his experiments largely go unexplained, and he seems to have been doing them either “for science” or to develop the kids as weapons. Nowhere are we told that he was trying to protect his country, and he ends up just looking like a delusional hypocrite. Tag: Undo

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  • curprev 14:2014:20, 2 March 2023‎ Ian565878 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,376 bytes +26‎ Undo revision 5411656 by Fower42 (talk). Just because he does things that are unjustifiable doesn't mean that he isn't an anti-villain. I mean, that's kind of the point of the category, they do immoral things for noble reasons. He was experimenting on Eleven because he wanted to protect his country from the USSR and stop Vecna. As for your point on Vecna, he just said that to manipulate Eleven into freeing him. Tags: Undo Reverted
  • curprev 12:5012:50, 2 March 2023‎ Fower42 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,350 bytes 0‎ No edit summary Tag: Source edit
  • curprev 12:4712:47, 2 March 2023‎ Fower42 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,350 bytes −26‎ My issues is that prior to season 4, Brenner was just a mad scientist experimenting on children. He simply wasn’t an anti-villain, despite his redeeming qualities, which is something that both Eleven and even Vecna point out (Eleven outright tells him that his actions, especially to Terry, were unjustified; Vecna dismisses him as an old man desperate to have power over others) Tags: Reverted Source edit

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  • curprev 02:1002:10, 21 February 2023‎ Ian565878 Message Wall contribs‎ 18,412 bytes +26‎ I agree with you on the Honorable category, but since you didn't offer an explanation for removing the Anti-Villain, I'll reiterate on why I think he qualifies. In the fourth season, when he is restoring Eleven's powers, he doesn't do this out of personal benefit, but he does it because he realizes that this is the only way to save humanity. While the way in which he does this is questionable, it is still a noble goal and frankly it is the only way they would have defeated Vecna. Tag: Source edit

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