Having voted on your PE proposals about the James Bond villains and The Asset, I was wondering if you have any plans to nominate other 007 villains. Some Villains pages (Red Grant, Franz Sanchez, Elliot Carver and General Medrano) have the "Pure Evil" category without having been approved and I would like to know your take on whether they should be approved or not. Regarding Grant, Carver and Medrano, I'm still hesitating but it's been months now that I would like to take the category away from Sanchez who in my opinion had too many likable moments and mitigating factors in the film. What do you think ?
Hi there. Yeah, I had a feeling you might ask me that since you seem to be one of the few here who's interested in those movies. It's... complicated. From what I understand, Red Grant is listed in the category because of his novel counterpart, and I haven't read the book, so I can't really comment on him. His film version is pretty evil too, but I feel like he's pretty standard for a Bond henchman. Franz Sanchez and Elliot Carver, I can't really comment on either, because their respective movies are two of the fewer Bond movies I haven't seen yet, so I can only speculate. In fact, License to Kill may be one of the only Bond films I'm not comfortable seeing because of how dark and violent is. Apparently, it's even more visceral than the Daniel Craig movies. As for General Medrano, I've seen his movie, Quantum of Solace... but I'm not sure how I feel about him. He stands out in his own small way for being a rapist, which is rare for the James Bond series, but I feel like he mostly only stands out for that, and even what he did to Camille's mother and sister is only hinted at. Other than that and trying to rape his waitress and Camille, I feel like he's pretty standard for the franchise, and he only has maybe 10 minutes of screentime.
So yeah, I'm kind of stumped on what to do about those remaining characters. I can't make up my mind about Medrano, and License to Kill just seems too nasty for me to enjoy, which makes it hard to decide for myself if Sanchez has some redeeming qualities in spite of his brutality. I'd be open to watching Tomorrow Never Dies if I find a copy of that around my house though, so I could end up doing a proposal for Carver eventually, since from what I've read, he sounds like a pretty easy keeper. I'll let you know in advance if I get around to it so you know when to look out for it.
I understand, thank you for your investigation, maybe a PE removal might be appropriate for some of them in this case. Speaking of PE villains, several villains from the Arroweverse (an extended universe that I'm quite a fan of) also have the category without being approved. PE proposals for this universe are quite rare and I was wondering if you are familiar with the series or if you can get someone to come up with proposals.
No problem. Unfortunately, while I know of it, I'm not personally familiar with the Arrowverse, so I wouldn't be qualified at all to do proposals for anyone from it that's in the category and deserves to be approved. I'm positive that there are at least a few users here who would be familiar with it though since there's a number of them who like anything having to do with Marvel and DC Comics. I'm just not sure who would be best to ask.
I don't know the character well, but I have actually read some basic info about him, and based on that, yes, I would personally say that he does. Like many other major Dragon Ball villains, he doesn't appear to have any positive traits whatsoever, and his main goal was to basically destroy the universe and reshape it so that it revolves around him, which, while not original, is certainly heinous even by the extremely high bar that Dragon Ball villains set. Plus, since Xenoverse is a different take on the material, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to compete with some of the other villains from the main series who rival him in heinousness and make similar attempts at mass omnicide like Zamasu/Goku Black.
No problem. By the way, can I ask a small favor? Would you mind reading and voting on the recent PE Proposal I did for Ares from Wrath of the Titans here? As you probably know, I don't usually prefer to actively ask others to do this since I'd prefer if they do so out of their own interest, but voting's been really slow on this one, and I don't want to feel like the time and effort I put into it is barely amounting to anything. Plus, while I'm very detail-oriented, this is probably one of my shorter and more concise ones to date, so it probably won't take you very long. If you really don't feel like it, I won't pressure you further, but I have to at least try asking.
Guess who's back from the back baby!? Anyways, I saw your proposal of Delphine Eraclea and I have nothing but to say easy yes to her. I'd say the reason why I'm okay with her inclusion is because of how horrific her regime is given we saw several of the resources of innocent ships that were being plundered by her so that she could enjoy her lavish meals and how she kept the war going? That's one thing that made her pass. But the worse part of them all is what he had done to her brother, Dio, it's just that effed-up and personal enough that I think made her an easy pass.
Anyways, I'm currently working on Dragalia Lost villains so I think I won't have time to propose some PEs or vote on some of them. But even then, I'm also wanting to try something new for a change when it comes to blogpost so yep...
Welcome back and thanks for that! By the way, I don't know if you're familiar with the work and the character, but I actually have another proposal out right now for Lady Mary Van Tassel from Sleepy Hollow (specifically, the Tim Burton film from 1999). I already have more than enough votes for a consensus, so it's hardly necessary, but if you know her and the movie and would like to feel like you're helping her get officially approved, feel free to check that out. I don't know what Dragalia Lost is, but I suppose I can just google to at least have a basic understanding of what it is.
P.S. "Back from the back"? I don't think I've ever seen or heard that before! Is that an actual saying?
Actually, I just thought of something; another character I've been planning to eventually do a proposal for just to get them officially approved is Seijiro Inui, AKA the Chairman from Paprika. However, I know for a fact you're familiar with that movie as well, being a Satoshi Kon fan and all, so would you prefer if I let you do that, or would it be okay if I did it? Not that I'm in any rush to get it done.
Hey again. Just wanna leave this link. Anyways, I don't think you may like this blogpost of mine because of you're not a biggest fan of profanity. Just imagine this as a "Magnificent Villains" but yeah... It's inevitable. Sorry about it
No, of course not. There are many anti-villains, tragic villains, evil creations and what not that are really intriguing and/or well-written as well in their own way. I've always simply been interested in ones that are pure evil for the reason that I find it very interesting to know what makes them tick and ultimately contributes to them being that way since in real life, it's rarely that clear-cut.
"I already feel like the way the PE category and the proposals have been handled has been steadily improving, but it certainly doesn't hurt to reinforce a couple more points or so. In particular, I agree that people should really know the work they're proposing from, and by extension, the character they're proposing rather than doing it just to see them get approved as quickly as possible. For what it's worth, I, personally, have only proposed characters from works that I've seen, and in the cases of more dated ones, I made sure to watch them shortly before proposing the characters they're from to make extra sure my information was accurate. After all, while I enjoy making proposals and feeling like I'm contributing something to the wiki, I also think it should be more about quality rather than quantity."
I kind of wanted to confess something about you. I'll admit that I'm a person who ended up making quantity over quality EPs back when I was a TV Tropes user and it's going to be the same as me in Villains Wiki. If I'm being honest with you, I have my reason why my to-do list and discussion dates was pretty much bloated or too much back when I was a TV Tropes user who loved to propose Complete Monsters because this is my raison d'etre or new obsession now. I don't know why but yeah...
That and I wanted to be in the Cool Kids club if I propose several CMs especially the ones who came from popular series or female villains and at the very least, make my existence meaningful by contributing through EPs instead of being a drone who always votes a lot which I hate the most. That's why I kind of wanted to imitate a bit with the likes of Lighty and Scraggle because they seemed to get a lot of praise due to not only being veteran users but also the amount of the candidate they had proposed and having a good streak of approved CMs.
I know it kind of pushing the trope into the badge of honor territory. But even then, I admit that I tried too hard to imitate the likes of Lighty and Scraggle because I wanted to be in the cool kids club and find my own purpose to live as a human being. That and consuming more media means I get a lot of inspiration of making several stories.
Hi there. Sorry, I saw this a few hours ago, but I didn't have time to respond since I've been busy for most of the day. Honestly, this isn't really news to me. It's pretty clear you felt like you were giving yourself a purpose of sorts by doing those EPs. Hopefully now though, you can see that it's ultimately just a hobby that doesn't, by any means, determine your worth or value. Even here, now that I've been given the opportunity to propose all these characters that I'm confident meet all the criteria so they can be officially approved, it's really fun to use as a way of interacting with other people who are interested in the different components that make a character qualify as "pure evil", at least as defined here, as well as make a small contribution to a wiki I find interesting. But that's really all it is, and the only thing that's actually important about it is getting characters properly sorted into it, as well as the "rejected evil" category if they come close enough to be considered, but fail to meet all the criteria, all for the sake of reducing edit-warring and continuous arguing. Other than that, it's just a something to interact with other people over.
In short though, it's easy to understand why you felt that way on TV Tropes, especially since it's something that required a lot of analyzing, and therefore, feels like it can gain you respectability. However, in the big scheme of things, the number of characters you get approved really doesn't matter; as long as you're making an honest effort to help sort characters that properly fit the category here or over there (with the same principle applying to the Pure Good category on the Heroes Wiki, which I'm also contributing to), your contributions are just as appreciated and/or helpful as anyone else's. As long as you recognize that being an honest contributor is all that really matters and that it's just a fun hobby otherwise, then I think you're okay. Otherwise, it can just become a desperate and unhealthy way to get others' approval at the expense of getting characters properly sorted where they should be based on the criteria they've laid out.
Yeah... I admit that proposing a PE villains is a fun thing to do especially when you read their rapsheet in the tv tropes which some of them could exceed 200 words. I think another thing that I wanted to tell is probably because how I was a stupid person back when I was a Brave Frontier player which brought nothing but harm towards other people which is why I tried my best to change on TV Tropes by trying my best to contribute to something and that's why I participate in both Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard cleanups but at the end, I didn't change at all and I'm aware how hard it is to contribute to other things in TV Tropes because how the mods can be a rather pain to deal with due to them throwing a hissy-fit at people who are bad at their grammars or example identations so yeah... Creating a page of a works that I like its going to be a hard time thanks to that and that's why I prefer to contribute via CM or MB thread itself to make myself worthy but I guess it was not. Believe it or not, I originally did not want to create a TV Tropes account in the first place because I am afraid that I will contribute to nothing but ended up contributing anyway so yeah...
If you ask me how my actual feelings in TV Tropes like, it'll be the likes of Patrick Star from Spongebob Squarepants in episode "No Hat For Pat" in which I related to Patrick a lot in that episode alone.
Well, I do appreciate you opening up about how you felt and what your motivation was for contributing, but I'm not sure why you feel like you didn't change at all from your apparent bad behavior or like you didn't contribute anything of value. From what I saw, you actually made a pretty considerable number of good proposals for relevant candidates. If anything, as you just described, you were perhaps just a little too eager to find new candidates and impress the other tropers, which is not a huge deal, and it's an easy trap to fall into, especially considering how judgmental people there can be. All in all, you did your more than a decent amount of contributions, and just because it didn't work out in the long run doesn't mean it was for nothing. Many of your contributions are still there, and based on the messages you're sending me now, I'd say it functioned as a pretty effective learning experience too.
P.S. I don't want to go into this too much, but there's something I'm curious about; did you happen to have any notable experiences, or any interaction whatsoever for that matter, with a moderator named Fighteer? I ask because personally, I had a pretty bad experience with him. In fact, he was the main reason I got suspended and why I felt like my moral values were disrespected to the point I eventually decided that in a way, it was actually a blessing in disguise to leave and not come back. Therefore, I'm just curious if you had any experiences like that with him, or if alternatively, you actually had a positive experience with him or simply never interacted at all.
Well, luckily, I rarely interact with that dude. The only thing I remember interacting with him is the likes of asking PE candidates in FEAR or trying to ask Guile Hero example in "Is This an Example" thread in which Fighteer responded by saying that I need to fix my grammar. Anyways, the mods that I guess had a little bit of interaction is Willbyr on Image Pickin Threads or Anime/Manga threads. But then again, since I'm suspended, i am not going to get myself involved with the mods and their wishes considered that would be a hard thing to do and how draconian they can be.
And regarding impress the other tropers, yeah...It's kind of hard thing to do especially some of them can be judgamental at times.
Oh, and by the way, there's something I feel I should warn you about since one, this user has apparently sent you a message recently, and two, lately, they've been going around attempting this with various users on this wiki. Okay, so that Reggie Jacobs user that just sent you a message? That was just the most recent of a very, very long list of sockpuppets accounts used by a troll who originally went by the username MIDKOWITCH. If you get any messages from a brand new user requesting for you to try creating or deleting pages for certain characters, I can pretty much guarantee you it's this user under a different name, and if you see their message before it's deleted by a moderator or administrator, you should either politely, but firmly decline, or better yet, remove the message from your wall without commenting at all. I don't know who this person is, but they've been at this for the better part of a year now, and despite users and administrators alike already explaining why certain characters do or don't qualify as villains, they've refused to let it go and keep endlessly creating sockpuppet accounts to try and get other users to create and delete the pages that they want.
In short, whoever this person is, they're clearly mentally ill, have way too much free time on their hands, and are completely, unhealthily obsessed with having their way. They've even occasionally become hostile and harassed me and some other users when we've tried to be firm with them, so this isn't someone you want to associate with. You can read some additional details about them on my personal user watchlist near the bottom of my page if you like, but I'd say these are all the details you really need to know.
I was actually already considering voting on it, because even though I haven't actually watched any of the Fate/stay night series, I still have superficial familiarity with, and, by extension, with this Ryuunosuke Uryuu. So no worries, I'll get around to it soon. But you know, on the topic of proposals, it doesn't seem like a lot of people have been voting on most recent proposals lately. I wonder why that is? I'll admit that I, myself, have only voted on a handful of them, but that's because I happen to not be familiar at all with most of the recent candidates brought up, and that's always how I've based which ones I vote on. However, before it seemed like even many of the ones I didn't vote on easily had a sufficient number of votes for a consensus, whereas now, many candidates are only just getting the few they need to be approved. Maybe most of the candidates that have been brought up lately happen to be obscure to most of the regular users here?
Oh, did you just hear that? Yeah, that happened all the way back in March. I was distraught about it at the time since it was all over an accident on my part, but since then, I've not only gotten over it, but in retrospect, it was probably for the best since I never felt like I truly belonged there. I think I already told you about it when I first created an account here in April, but maybe I never told you what the specific incident was? I don't mind telling you, but it does require some in-depth explanation to understand.
Okay, so I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but I never use swear words when writing here. Sure, in the case of this wiki, they discourage you from using anything excessive, so that doesn't seem very unusual, but there are still some users who type the odd word sometimes. Anyway, in my case, my aversion to it is very much deliberate; you see, in my day-to-day life, I'm actually very sensitive to that, to the point I often go out of my way to avoid people and places I'm likely to hear much of it. Therefore, I'm generally very comfortable here due to them discouraging people from doing it too much in their rules... but on TV Tropes, as you well know, they're comparably more loose about that. Therefore, a while back (as in 2015 and earlier), I would sometimes edit swear words that seemed unnecessary, and I had stubbornly convinced myself I was doing a good thing. However, the moderators obviously didn't like that, and I was suspended. Eventually though, as you also know, I returned last year and started finding a different way to contribute without editing by participating in the Complete Monster cleanup forum. I didn't always feel like I belonged there, but I learned some great tips on how to improve my writing from those like Lighty and Scraggle, and there were even a handful of tropers I felt like I was developing a bit of a bond with, including yourself.
After doing this for a while, I thought I could try asking for another chance to edit, especially since I felt I had matured enough to not do what I did before anymore. Plus, I developed a better coping mechanism by using a Google Chrome extension called Web Nanny, which edits most swear words when I apply it to any given page (but only from my view, not anyone else's). Anyway, they actually agreed, but Fighteer immediately gave me a strict warning about not making even the slightest slip-up, which sadly, only took a few days to happen. I was trying to make a couple of small additions to the Fruits Basket character page, and as I often do, I used my Web Nanny extension to make myself feel comfortable as I scrolled down the list to the spot I wanted to add a couple of things; but unfortunately, I completely forgot that if I did that in the editing stage, it would save all my extension's changes. Afterwards, I had a disaster on my hands, especially since it's a far-from-perfect extension, meaning it also changed completely normal words based on their spelling, and I didn't know a simply way of reverting my edits. Therefore, I pleaded with Fighteer to both help me fix and it and let him know this wasn't intentional. How did he respond though? He just banned me immediately and decided "I couldn't be trusted", no matter how much I pleaded on the suspension forum that this was a complete accident and not a regression into my old habits or a case of going back on my word to not do it.
Anyway, sorry to elaborate so much, but I thought you deserved to get a summary of the whole story so that you'll understand. And you know what? If moderators like Fighteer are goign to be so quick to assume the worst about me, and treat me similarly to actual trolls and vandals, I don't want to be there. I do miss being on the CM cleanup forum, doing my part to contribute, and especially interacting with some of the tropers there like you, 43110, Futuremoviewriter, Lighty and Scraggle, but again, even there, I never felt like I completely fit in. I always felt like I was the only one who cared about people perhaps being a little more liberal with their profanity than necessary, and was really bugs me is that there were so many times that I was tolerant and didn't say a word about it, due to not wanting to cause conflict. And this was despite the fact that some tropers, like Beast and TheRealJackieBoy, could be liberal enough about it that I usually wanted to skip over their effort posts altogether. However, I still didn't bring it up unless necessary in private messaging, and somehow, despite all my efforts to both be tolerant and be open to constructive criticism to improve my own writing, Fighteer still thought that one accident, that one sincere unintentional slip-up, was enough to determine they "couldn't trust me", never mind the fact it had been close to 4 years since the last time I edited swear words deliberately.
So to wrap it up, if they decide to acknowledge that I didn't deliberately do anything wrong and that that I'm really not a problematic user like some of them insist on thinking, and they stop judging and scrutinizing every little thing I do, I'd still be open to coming back. However, with people as intolerant and quick to distrust/assume the worst like "Fighteer" running it, I doubt it will happen. At the time, I wish he hadn't given me another chance to edit it he was practically going to use the first excuse he could get to get rid of me and make me lose all of my privileges... but again, if one accident is all it took, maybe it would have inevitably happened sooner or later anyway. I hope this was informative, and maybe even interesting, to read.
Yeah, I will admit that TV Tropes is awfully strict as hell and not pretty friendly when it comes to newbies. I will admit that I disagree with some of their policies such as anti-complaining policy and grammar issues policies (When you have an issue with grammar, you will get suspended ASAP) regardless, I have no choice but to adapt/get along with it.
And yeah, the mods themselves can act like a frigging crusader too due to their draconian policies so it's understandable why some of the mods in there rubbed you in the wrong way.
What still frustrates me the most is that I put a lot of sincere effort to simultaneously better myself and be tolerant towards others, even though without meaning any harm, they were using the kind of language I really don't care for much more often than I felt was necessary, and that took a lot of discipline and effort on my part. Despite that, it meant so little to the moderators that making that one mistake, which was very clearly an unintentional accident that I was going to be sure not to repeat, was enough to ban me in spite of all that.
So in the end, I was actually being very tolerant towards things that other people were doing that upset me, but the moderators weren't at all tolerant or sympathetic towards me for my shortcomings despite the fact I obviously meant no harm. I completely understand having zero tolerance towards far more deliberate and harmful behavior, like the administrators here are with users who keep plagiarizing, category-spamming, edit-warring, and generally being hostile and uncooperative. Over there however, I've noticed many other cases where there are tropers like myself who mean absolutely no harm and may just be having trouble living up to their standards in some respect, like with grammar... and they still ban them because they feel they're too troublesome to be worth the effort. They're so strict and unforgiving that I feel like they're basically promoting the message that people can't even make too many mistakes to begin with, even if they're willing to learn from them.
Anyway, sorry to rant. As you can tell, I'm open to talking about it, but if I do, it's hard for me not to express how much I've come to fundamentally disagree with the way they operate. I think they're setting a truly horrible example to the point of basically promoting intolerance, so as much as I'd like to still be in touch with certain tropers, I've come to accept that that's just not possible with moderators like Fighteer, and to a lesser extent, NombreTomado, running it. I'm also super glad I don't have to keep being both endlessly tolerant of other tropers repeatedly, casually using language that makes me uncomfortable while being scrutinized and criticized every time I unintentionally do something wrong, even if it's something minor like making an effort-post that's unnecessarily long. Unlike the moderators, the other tropers on the cleanup forum may not have meant to make me feel that way, but that's how it was, and in retrospect, that just wasn't right.
I've never used Discord, so maybe, but for that same reason, I'm really uncertain whether I'll like, or even be comfortable using it or not. Maybe I should look up some information about Discord to get a better idea of how it operates.
In the meantime, thanks for understanding how I feel, and I hope I don't sound too bitter or resentful about my experience, because while I may have been at first, I moved past it a while ago. Since you were curious, I simply thought you should know exactly what happened, including why, even though I did like certain things about it, including some of the tropers I conversed with, I honestly felt like I never truly belonged there.
Thanks. I don't mind, and I appreciate the positive sentiment. Please don't mind my ranting here; I used to communicate with this particular user over on that site, so when he asked me, I really wanted to tell him exactly why I was cut off from there so abruptly, and why I thought the moderators dealt with it in a way that came off as really unfair, and most of all, disrespectful. Honestly, I've kind of wanted to vent about it since joining here, but I didn't want to risk bombarding him with unwanted details against his will, so when he asked me about it, I felt like I finally knew for sure that it was okay to come forward about it.
And yes, I'd say things have already turned out much better here. I don't feel like I've had a single negative incident, not even a minor one, since joining in April. Over there, on the other hand, I felt like I couldn't make a single statement that could be taken the wrong way, had to be as good at doing complete monster effort-posts as those who were more experienced to gain any respect, and had to tolerate so much unnecessary profanity in spite of their ridiculous strictness about other things, which made me feel like my moral values meant nothing there, and would give other tropers a reason to look down on me. I think when it comes down to it, even if they don't mean to come off like this, their moderators are just so strict that they come off as bullies who look down on anyone who can't live up to their lofty standards, and are simply not willing to cooperate or sympathize with anyone they can't understand.
I've never really used TV Tropes all that much, but I do remember looking at the headscratchers section of Child's Play and there were some pretty salty people who were acting rude to people just beacuse they didn't agree with their theories. It's the same reason I don't go on the forums for the FNaF wiki that much anymore because it's the same type of deal. So I kinda know what it's like to be disrepected when you didn't really do anything wrong in the first place. But I'm glad that my comment helped you and I'm also glad that the Villains Wiki has been treating you better.
I'm glad/grateful about that too, as well as that you understand my feelings on things like that. And yeah, I can totally seeing that being the case in the headscratcher section for a work like Child's Play. After all, the kinds of people who watch those sorts of movies to begin with probably have much looser standards in general with regards to what they consider acceptable, and it's easy to see some of them not having an especially respectful attitude... which is ironic, since TV Tropes seems to value that so much. Maybe those are the tropers they should, at the very least, be edit-banning (of course, if you saw that a while ago, maybe that did happen later on).