Not heinous enough? What?

Retinz was deemed to have failed the heinous standard for the Complete Monster trope. I find that to be bunk, because even without the lack of trust toward anybody else, which I'm going to talk about soon enough, Retinz was hellbent on causing a 17YO as much pain as possible for mere association with Magnifi Gramarye over something implied to be Retinz's own fault.

The lack of trust toward anybody, conveniently missed in the cleanup thread's effort post, is a VERY legitimate point. When I was blind-streaming the game, I immediately realized Retinz killed Mistree as ITS OWN GOAL. It's been months after that so the initial shock would have worn off, and I can see only two possibilities, both showcasing that the pain caused to Trucy and the Wright Anything Agency should be treated separately enough from Mistree's own murder, which adds to the heinous factor:
-Retinz was actually aiming to kill Mistree to silence him. This would this would turn his already arbitrary revenge attempt against a 17YO Genki Girl magician, who works hard at that, into freaking pretext for murdering a person loyal enough to follow a prank plan.
-Retinz was wanting the whole time to pull the aforementioned arbitrary revenge attempt against Trucy for something that happened 13 years prior (let the math sink in). This would mean that Retinz had been using and planning to kill Mistree, a guy who proved his loyalty, FROM THE START.

It's not even a problem that the lack of trust detail is only in Press dialogue, because you're forced to Press every statement in the given testimony to advance the game, so the dialogue is non-optional, and Apollo even thinks Retinz as "the complete opposite of Trucy" so it's clearly acknowledged too. I forgot about the detail for a while, but it's still deserving scrutiny.

Also to address that I could have Complete Monster addressed with Hate Sink in this case, there actually is a moment where I actually feel anything remotely resembling sympathy toward Retinz, when he said "When I was but a child, it was my dream to become a great magician" reminding us that we were all children once with dreams and aspirations. All it ultimately does is hallmark his lack of empathy, seeing as Mistree could say the same thing. We don't see HIM pull the same beeswax Retinz pulled. That's not even getting into how too many people on the internet, by being callous sadists, are like Roger Retinz, sans things like the successor murdering, we would hope.

What I'd like to know is how Retinz could be failing the heinous standard. At the very least, he's competing with Kristoph Gavin and arguably smokes HIM within less resources. Even if that isn't, the frame-up being a direct part of the likely primary goal instead of intended to avoid heat is practically unique in the Ace Attorney series. Even Matt Engarde, Dahlia Hawthorne, and (to an extent) Ga'ran Sigatar Khura'in, while clearly very vile sadists, are more concerned with getting off scot-free on that angle. Retinz is simply intent on bringing the pain train to Trucy off the bat, scripted and everything, because he wants to "run Troupe Gramarye and everybody associated with it into the ground." MasterKnight (talk) 02:21, May 25, 2017 (UTC)

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