Talk:Syndrome

Complete Monster?

Stop adding him to this category! He is anything but a Complete Monster. He doesn't qualify one bit. He has a very sympathetic backstory that[[Click to Continue > by FlashMall| balances]] his misdeeds and he doesn't even do anything heinous. Stop adding him.9Darthmaul (talk) 21:51, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes he is. He is one of the darkest Pixar Villains ever because he is a murderer, a child abuser & emotionless traitor who only cares of becoming a superhero. Also note that some villains with tragic backstories have become complete monsters out of their tragedy just to complete their goals. No matter how many times you state this, he is, always will & will be a complete monster. (Swoobatman (talk) 03:13, March 27, 2014 (UTC))

He was by all means a Complete Monster. He murdered almost all of the superheroes just so he can pretend to be one. He attempted to kill Mr. Incredibles family by firing missles even after learning there were children on the plane; after which he laughed and taunted him about their deaths. He allowed Mr. Incredible to kill Mirage after she just selflessly saved him from the former. His tragic backstory doesn't matter, either. You're saying it's justified to pretty much commit superhero genocide just because he couldn't be a sidekick? He was easily the darkest Pixar villain of them all and a sadistic, mass-murdering psychopath. (DarkLord6414 (talk)

I am in agreement with this assessment. TV Tropes not considering him one is just proof that they're not always right. Evidently they consider Syndrome's backstory to be more sympathetic then Darth Bane and Darth Zannah's, which is laughable to say the least. Part of the reason why I don't go there anymore. Overseer80 (talk) 11:48, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Why is this even up for debate? He's inarguably a complete monster, a blind man could see that. Just because he was turned down by Mr. Incredible doesn't justify him for attempting to cause genocide (kill all the heroes). Fireworks888 (talk) 02:49, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

It's not a debate really. It's just us putting in our two cents. And as to a blind man being able to see it, TV Tropes evidently doesn't see it that way. But then that's part of the reason why I don't go there anymore. Overseer80 (talk) 11:36, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

He had a valid Freudian Excuse when he was ditched by Mr. Incredible, which is why TV Tropes removed him from their list. The excuse would've worked... you know, until he slaughtered a bunch of superheroes purely out of spite. Like Lotso, he has an excuse, but their actions remove any sort of sympathy the audience would have had. Then he keeps going, hence the reason why I never removed the CM category because he is one.

Yes, the one who keeps removing these categories actually agrees with the Monster sentiment with Syndrome. Same thing goes for Hopper, one briefly mentioned positive trait is snuffed out by his vile actions.  THE DREADED ONE AWAKENS 20:49, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

What you just said above actually confirms that his Freudian Excuse ISN'T valid. Again, this is why I don't go on TV Tropes anymore. This site has a less draconian and nonsensical way of looking at things, and that's why I prefer it. Overseer80 (talk) 22:00, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

Syndrome really is a complete monster & also please stop removing the category already. Note that some villains with really tragic backstories have become really evil due to that they can't stand their tragic defeat in the past, for example Lotso who was one of my favorite CMs.  Also to the users who keep on removing CM, please learn to REALLY find out which villain is a monster & who isn't, for example the Elfen Lied bullies. About TV Tropes usage, try to at least[[Click to Continue > by FlashMall| balance]] the usage of it to at least 1/2 since this wiki is not fully TT itself. (Swoobatman (talk) 00:37, April 7, 2014 (UTC)).

That, and TV Tropes doesn't always make the best of decisions when it comes to who's a monster or not. robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 23:11, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky

The Incredibles is considerably dark for a Disney film...and he's not far and away the most evil villain in the film. User:Pigletisbacon 18:03 July 4, 2014

• Insert J Jonah Jameson Laugh* What? He is ABSOLUTELY the most evil villain in the film. Any bad things his minions and robots do are only because they're working for him. He is the mastermind, just as any Big Bad is the mastermind behind the actions of the flunkies. And as to the Incredibles being dark for a Disney film, so what? If anything that only makes his CM status more[[Click to Continue > by FlashMall| earned]]. 

Syndrome is a Complete Monster. No ifs, ands, or buts. Overseer80 (talk) 03:32, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

It's not like they didn't choose to follow him out of their own free will.

User:Pigletisbacon 20:48 July 6, 2014

Really? You are relly including hundreds, maybe even thousands of minor henchman as being monsters? Many villains who are complete monsters have henchmen, and they often have their own ulterior reasons for following said villains. Heck, half of those henchmen don't even have names, and some ended up being killed anyway. Mirage, while what she did was wrong, she ultimately[[Click to Continue > by FlashMall| redeemed]] herself at the end of the film. Syndrome is a monster, because he was the one who orchestrated the entire superhero genocide scheme, and therefore all the events in the film happen because of him. And seriously, since when is a Disney movie considered too dark to have a complete monster/ If you look on TV Tropes you have villains like Frollo and the Horned King who are listed as being monsters despite being from rather dark films. I mean seriously, Pigletisbacon, what's your major malfunction? robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 02:05, July 7, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky

Hence my insertion of the J. Jonah Jameson laugh from Spider-Man 2 for my reaction. I think it was warranted. Overseer80 (talk) 04:09, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

You're J. Jonah laugh is appreciated, Overseer.

The points you bring up are abysmal, Piglet. The entire wiki can agree with me. The Incredibles may be one of the darkest films in the Pixar Animated Canon, and you know why? Syndrome. He negates his own petty little Freudian "Excuse" and that stuff about him not being evil enough? Have you even watched the film? I think genocide, launching missiles at a plane with children on board, and letting your henchgirl, who by the way isn't close to being as evil as Syndrome, die, then unleashing a hero-killing death machine on the city makes you arguably worse than Lotso.

I went there. Syndrome is an unforgivable bastard. All his henchman are working under his orders. They kill because its his will.

Have a nice day.  THE DREADED ONE AWAKENS 04:45, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

ALL OF YOU.

You don't have to mock or mistreat a user just because he doesn't agree with you or to prove your point. Let this be a warning to everyone. Welcome to your doom! 18:43, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

No mistreatment that I can see. We reserve the right to disagree, and also to point out that his arguments are ridiculous. That's not insulting him personally. It's insulting his arguments, which frankly deserve to be insulted and mocked because they're that terrible. When you say certain things, you have to expect a certain kind of reaction. I've been treated much worse for saying far less offensive things than what has been said here. Just saying. Overseer80 (talk) 01:39, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

I was just trying to say that most Incredibles villains are rather dark for a Disney film in their own right...and that he wans't the only reason why the movie was dark...I'm sorry if you thought that I was going crazy... 23:01 July 8, 2014 Pigletisbacon

It's also possible that the writers intended for his backstory to be sympathetic, as they allowed Mirage to perform a Heel Face Turn for not very much less. 14:55 July 11, 2014 Pigletisbacon

...that makes zero sense. Someone else becoming good doesn't make HIM sympathetic. Honestly this (like most discussions I have here) is getting really old and feeling like a serious waste of time. Overseer80 (talk) 15:26, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

I'm saying that they let Mirage pull off a Heel Face Turn even though she was a willing accessory to the numerous deaths of superheroes...

And they never really showed the superhero deaths onscreen...of course, there's the Operation Kronos database...but that's about it really... Pigletisbacon 12:56 August 2, 2014

I feel that he was played for laughs the whole time. It's been a few years since I last saw this movie, but I think one of the heroes didn't show revulsion, hatred, or fear. NotReadyIma (talk) 02:17, October 6, 2014 (UTC)

Syndrome was comedic. That does not mean he was played for laughs; he was still a serious threat. Also, Mr. Incredible caused him to get sucked into the jet engine when he tossed that car at him in the film's climax. robinsonbecky@bellsouth.net (talk) 02:57, October 6, 2014 (UTC)Robinsonbecky

once a villain becomes genocidal they are almost always a CM UNLESS they have some redeeming factor - and let me be clear here, you need a heck of a lot of redeeming factor(s) to remotely escape the Moral Horizon genocide (even attempted) brings with it.. Magneto barely escaped CM status in this regard because A) he had a truly tragic backstory and B) he honestly is conflicted over the subject.. Syndrome does not seem to be very conflicted on wiping out an entire section of society and being rejected by your childhood hero does not remotely come close to being tragic enough to justify genocide Inferno Pendragon (talk) 03:06, October 6, 2014 (UTC)

I see where you're going, Inferno. Magneto is a Jewish Holocaust survivor and a mutant, which justifies his genocide against humans and Nazis.  NotReadyIma (talk) 01:40, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

only partially, NotReady, even Magneto knows full-scale genocide of humanity would make him no better than a nazi himself (Mystique however lacks that and is thus arguably more "evil") - Magneto would likely be horrified by the actions of, let's say, Demona from Gargoyles (who wanted to wipe out every human on Earth) : genocide is absolute evil because it is wiping out families, generations etc.. if Syndrome truly was planning genocide he approaches CM status just by the concept of genocide (even tragic beings often become CM when they go genocidal.. look a Koba.. he was horribly mistreated yet when he began genocide he quickly went CM).  Anyway.. that's how I view this matter : Syndrome is likely a CM because he wanted to wipe out an entire "race (aka superhumans) just because he was denied a childhood fantasy Inferno Pendragon (talk) 01:47, October 9, 2014 (UTC)

Actually he is, Syndrome is one of the few Pixar villains I'd call a complete monster. Syndrome attempts genocide by luring supers to his island so he could slaughter them with his robots, Would happily try to murder women and young children (as shown when he fires homing missles at Mr. Incredibles families plane while the former is in captivity), Sic's one of his Omnidroids on a massive city to wreak wanton destruction (just so he could stop it and pretend to be a super hero) and above all he only cares about himself (even his henchwoman Mirage turns on him when he tries to kill off the incrdible family. Yes he was kind of humourous but his crimes were not played for laughs. Id say he makes it up there with Hopper and Lotso. Xmike920 19:23, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Hopefully this helps explain things:

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Zcooper95/Why_Hopper_and_Syndrome_are_Complete_Monsters

The fact of the matter is that TV Tropes considers him not a Complete Monster, and therefore he cannot be labeled one. That's the way it goes on this wiki, is it not? So why the double standard for Syndrome, who I must point out is NOT as truly heinous as he could have been with what he had at his disposal. If he was, he would have killed the babysitter in order to take Jack Jack rather than just decieving her into giving him to him. DocColress (talk) 18:25, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

He killed practically all the superheroes just so he can pretend to be one. He willingly launched missles at a plane when he's discovers it's piloted by Mr. Incredible's family in an attempt to kill them; even after learning that children were aboard the plane. He then sadistically taunted him and laughed after it's presumed they're dead. He nonchalantly allowed Mr. Incredible to kill Mirage after she just selflessly saved his life from him. That tragic backstory is completely irrelevant. Killing thousands of people in an attempt to pretty much commit superhero genocide isn't justified because he couldn't be a sidekick. He's the darkest Pixar villain ever and a Complete Monster. (Mastermind522 (talk) 07:03, September 6, 2015 (UTC))

ANd I'm gonna have to agree that Syndrome is without a doubt a CM. He shows no remorse for his actions despite his backstory. Rememember just because TV tropes doesn't list the villain in question, does NOT mean they are not a CM. Ngh93 (talk) 19:50, September 6, 2015 (UTC)

Exactly being a comedic villain does not always diaqualify you from CM status same thing goes for McLeach from The Rescuers Down Under both are somewhat humorous and comedic, but their crimes are taken upon completly seriously and are played upon for no comedy. He meets all the criteria also and is roughly as heinous (and in some ways worse than Hopper and Lotso). Attempted genocide, Attempted slaughter of the heroes family (even after learning children were on board) then allowing Mr. Incredible to kill your own henchwoman in presumed revenge, and allowing one of your man killing robots to wreak wanton destruction on a populated city is more than enough to qualify him by the films standardsXmike920 (talk) 17:39, September 11, 2015 (UTC)Xmike920Xmike920 (talk) 17:39, September 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree 100% that Syndrome is a CM, but he's also pathetic. If he were to be a tragic villain,  he wouldn't kill so many innocents and ALL heroes just because he didn't become one hero's partner. That would be the same as calling Cell harmless. That being said, Syndrome was just a psychopathic child you just can't get rid of once he knows you, and not becomming someone's partner is not enough to make someone a genocidal psychopath. Let's not forget he also tried to kill Mr. Incredible's baby. Syndrome is pure evil, end of the line.   DiabolicCade (talk) 14:33, September 11, 2015 (UTC)

While he did have a cause for what he did, he was still definitely a CM. He committed superhero genocide and was willing to let his superhero-killing robot do lots of damage to the city, which may have resulting in civilian deaths. Let's not forget he was wanted to kill Elastigirl, Dash, and Violet on the plane, and did not call off the missiles, even when Elastigirl said that there were children aboard the plane. Right after the missile incident, Syndrome got right in Mr. Incredible's face and taunted him. Mr. Incredible attempted to grab Syndrome to crush him to death, but Mirage saved Syndrome's life by pushing him out of the way and allowing herself to be grabbed. Syndrome's response to Mr. Incredible's threat to kill Mirage instead? "Eh, go ahead." A villian's willingness to let people die just so you can get revenge on your former idol is most certainly grounds for being a CM.Tar62800 (talk) 23:19, October 31, 2015 (UTC)

Nemesis?

Shoudn't Syndrome be labelled a Nemesis, considering Mr. Incredible created an enemy in him, albeit indirectly? Also, I don't think he counts as an Outright Villain, since he was so convinced he was a hero.

Also, when was it said he had a mental illness?Joe Devaney (talk) 09:02, July 1, 2015 (UTC)

Please remove the (similar to Kick-:@#) thing.

I would say Syndrome qualifies as a Nemesis. Since it was Mr. Incredible's refusal to make him his sidekick that motivated him to become a supervillain and get revenge. (Mastermind522 (talk) 10:08, October 14, 2015 (UTC))

New trivia thing to add

I just came up with a  thing to add to Syndrome's trivia. section 

Syndrome is somewhat similar to Powerpuff Girls villain Princess Morbucks as they both initially wanted to serve on their idol's side (Powerpuffs for Princess; Mr. Incredible for Syndrome), only for their idols to decline their offer. They both instead become their idols worst enemies. 

Tjhe trouble is I can't add this trivia fact cause the page is locked. Could you admins please add this triva fact to the Syndrome page?  Thanks Ngh93 (talk) 20:06, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Complete Monster

Alright, alright, alright. I will be respectful. I undertand that many of you think he is a CM, and I understand why. But, TV Tropes does not consider him a CM. I feel uncomfortable with listing ANY villain they deemed as not a CM...

Just because TV Tropes doesn't have a villain listed doesn't mean they're right, their standards are so high it's scary. Empress Mitsuru (talk) 16:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

He is a Complete Monster

Okay, we are gonna settle this once and for all. I totally see why you guys think he is a Complete Monster and I understand why so many of you try to include him. And I agree TV Tropes acts hypocritically sometimes. That being said, we do too. We deemed Charles Muntz (who is very simillar if not nealry identitcal to Syndrome in crimes) and Turbo (who is infinitely worse than both of them) as not being CMs. It is irrational for us to include Syndrome but not these other two villains? I am waiting for rational long response and explanation. Thanks. 9Darthmaul (talk) 15:37, October 19, 2015 (UTC)

Charles Muntz isn't even close to Syndrome's level, not to mention he has the excuse of being insane due to spending years in the wilderness, while Syndrome is just extremely petty. I do agree with you about Turbo though.Empress Mitsuru (talk) 16:55, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

Muntz is not even close to Syndrome (Or Hopper or Lotso for that matter in terms of crimes and heinousness). He was driven mainly by paranoia and is not heinous enough. Turbo from Wreck It Ralph is more heinous than Muntz  but still not heinous enough to become a monster.Xmike920 (talk) 16:34, October 22, 2015 (UTC)xmike920Xmike920 (talk) 16:34, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Muntz not heinous enough? What?! He is completetely like Syndrome if not worse in terms of heinoussness. They both committed genoicide (Syndrome against superheroes while Muntz against explorers) and they both attempted to murder kids (except that Muntz used much more painful means for a child to die as Syndrome merely wanted to blow up the plane while Muntz would throw a child from a blimp.) Not even close to Syndrome?! Think again. You do have a lefitimate point that he was driven by paranoia and went insane...9Darthmaul (talk) 19:22, October 22, 2015 (UTC)

Muntz genocidal? He murdered explorers but that doesn't constitute genocide, and unlike Syndrome he actually has a valid Freudian excuse. Also Xmike20, I don't see how Turbo isn't heinous enough to be a monster, he destroys 2 worlds for attention and tries to force Ralph to watch Vanellope get killed by the Cy Bugs. Empress Mitsuru (talk) 14:55, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Valid Freudian Excuse? What do you mean? Being labeled a fraud isn't an excuse one bit. It is even lesser than Syndrome. If you mean being on a deserted island for a long time as an excuse and becoming insane, I will take it for granted. But if murdering explorers doesn't count as genoicide, how does murdering superheroes does? We have no proog who killed more people really.9Darthmaul (talk) 20:48, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

He was accused and spent so long he went crazy was the excuse apparently but I haven't see I UP so I am going by what I read and hear. Killing adventures/explorers as it's technically a choice of profession with no real thing generally making them separate from everyday people besides I don't think he was trying to wipe all them off the of the Earth. The superheroes however where shown to have powers (their might of been a few without but we are shown ones with powers namely) and probably was genetic in some of not all separating them from everyday people and he aimed to wipe out the entire group just to be able to "Play" as one himself. Jester of chaos (talk) 21:39, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

And one more thing. The reason I never considered him a Complete Monster is because my CM standards are ridiculously high. So I can completely see why you guys think he is, but please do not criticize my for my high standards; okay? 9Darthmaul (talk) 18:18, November 15, 2015 (UTC) Funny thing is that Syndrome recently got a revote on the TV Tropes Complete Monster effort thread and it was like 20-10, with 20 feeling he was a CM. So Syndrome was rightfully voted up as an example...and still didn't go up as an example because Fighteer wouldn't allow it. What. the. HELL? DocColress (talk) 18:39, July 8, 2016 (UTC) You should talk Doc. You said, you considered him only a 99% monster so what do you care. That said, it seems like Fighteer, a mod, acts like a dictator sometimes. What a jerk. KRZ211 (talk) 09:40, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

I hear you. That's pretty much the reason All The Tropes was created; far too many people have been banned from Tv Tropes for expressing opinions contrary to the staff. That's why they condemn certain works and play favouritism to others.Joe Devaney (talk) 14:59, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

Genocidal?

No. His plan was to perfect the Omnidroid so he could pretend to "defeat" it and gain recognition as a hero for himself.

Kronos Unveiled, The Incredibles

Only Supers vs Droids

Notice the Folder is labeled "Supers" but ALL it details is them vs the Droid. Mr I does a search by individual names which come up as "Unknown" until his own is entered. The result is his battle against the Droid.

IF there was to be any mention of killing ALL the Supers, that would have been the best time to mention it, and it is not stated anytime else.

Then he lays out his complete plan to the family.

When Everyone's Super...

Still no mention of Super genocide

Again, no mention of killing ALL Supers.

--Love Robin (talk) 19:37, March 8, 2016 (UTC)

He did refuse to kill Jack-Jack's babysitter even though it would have been easier to simply kill her to get to Jack-Jack. I can see your point; we don't for sure know if he killed all Supers. We know of at least 3 he didn't kill: Mr. Incredible, Elastigirl, and Frozone. However, the only individual names Mr. Incredible searches are his own, Frozone, and Elastigirl, as a test to see if Elastigirl and Frozone are safe from Syndrome, and to see if Syndrome knows where he is. Of those 3, he is the only one to have faced the Omnidroid alone in a test of the robot. Thus, the fact that the only battle result the individual searches showed was the result of his battle where he was "terminated" would not have been a good time to show how many Supers died since only Mr. Incredible, Elastigirl, and Frozone were individually searched. Also, when he was revealing his plan, he was only intending to brag that he beat the Incredibles (though they weren't imprisoned for long), not to brag that he had killed off many Supers. It probably didn't even cross Syndrome's mind to brag about him killing several Supers, he was just happy he had captured an entire family of Supers this time rather than just one, and that they couldn't save their city since they were imprisoned.Tar62800 (talk) 20:19, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Whether he killed all Supers or not, the fact stands that he killed dozens of real heroes just so he could pretend to be one. That's more than enough to qualify for him being a CM, especially for a Pixar movie. Not to mention he attempted to kill Bob's family just because he thought he'd get over it since he said he worked alone.Joe Devaney (talk) 14:59, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't one of the flashback villains planning to drop a missile on the city? Pigletisbacon August 7, 2016