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  • I'm an "idiot"? listen.. I know my Doctor Who and Akhaten fails CM status for MANY reasons, you asked for one.. so I'll give you that and more:

    1) beyond human understanding

    2) is a parasite (this IS a valid reason to exempt it btw)

    3) falls into "made of evil"

    4) Doctor Who verse has far more horrific monsters that do evil for far more petty reasons.

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    • none of those things exempt it from being a CM, you dolt.. doesn't matter if it's a parasite : it's pure evil.. if you really knew Who then you'd know that.

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    • If a being's made of evil, then it's hard to say if it could be anything other than evil. Do they have morality at all?

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    • First, improve your temperament before I report you.

      Secondly, no, Scottish brings valid points, namely being "made of evil." It requires evil to survive. Its very nature dictates its own survival, and it cannot logically choose to be anything else.

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    • parasites are "evil" by design, it is an evil entity but that does NOT mean it's a CM..

      Valeyard is more of a CM than it is and I'll tell you why :

      characters like Valeyard have the capability to be morally "good" but choose to be "evil" and some of the WORST Who villains are human (or close).. because Who aliens tend to be "Made of Evil" or generic "Monsters".

      Even Daleks, the most evil characters in the show, are exempt from CM status due to the fact they are A) an entire race and B) can not understand good.

      Akhaten is not a CM because it is unable to be "good", it is a giant negativity vampire.. Doctor even says so himself.

      I know my Who lore, so don't try that old line.. I pretty much love the show (and its variety of monsters).

      again.. VERY few Who aliens can be CMs.. Akhaten is definitely not one of them.

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    • the fact you bring up Valeyard proves you don't know crap about Who.. Valeyard is a being of "pure evil", so how the hell does he count and not Akhaten?

      Akhaten sought to kill every single planet connected to its rings, feeding off their pain and misery.. that's a lot worse than Daleks (who you laughably claim are the "most evil")

      Humans in Doctor Who are never portrayed as evil, let alone CMs.. so don't try that.

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    • You're delibrately veering away from the mitigating qualities, Gear. You're measuring it by a scale of evil and not what factors prevent it from being a monster. In terms of actions, sure, it's heinous enough, but not by character.

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    • he doesn't.. but he's a LOT closer than Akhaten.

      humans in Who are never portrayed as evil? oh sweet.. are you trolling? remember the Star Whale? "no one HUMAN has anything to say to me today!".

      That's just one example of humans in Who that go rogue.. some of the nastier things done in Who is due to rogue humans.

      As for Daleks.. I didn't "claim" anything.. they are one of the most evil races in Who.. every incarnation despises them (and for good reason) : Daleks embody xenophobia at its worst and Davros is one of Whoverse's most demented monsters.

      Compared to Davros beings like Akhaten don't mean anything.

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    • There are a few human monsters in the Whoniverse.

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    • Anybody remember Oswald Danes? Perhaps John Lumic? Davros?

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    • really? you're bringing Davros into this?

      why are you bringing him up? he has no meaning in this conversation..

      also the Star Whale thing was not humans as evil, humans were desperate..

      again, Akhaten was going to kill every single being that worshipped it and feed on their pain.. how exactly can beings like Valeyard claim to top that?

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    • I bring up Davros because he tried to destroy reality itself. Davros was nowhere near Ahkaten's power level and nearly accomplished more than anything Ahkaten could.

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    • because all the beings LostGod listed (as well as Valeyard to a lesser extent) CHOOSE to do unspeakable atrocities.. Akhaten is a God of Evil.. it has NO OTHER PURPOSE..

      Akhaten is also a parasite and I don't care if you claim otherwise a parasite is by necessity an "evil" entity but it can NEVER be a CM.. because parasites, while destructive and malignant, REQUIRE such "evil" to survive.

      Davros and all the humans LostGod mentioned do not require "evil" to survive, they just commit it because they feel it furthers their own selfish goals.. that's what a CM is.

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    • whatever.. I might give you Davros (obviously) but you saying Valeyard is more evil than Akhaten is some serious BS considering Valeyard isn't even a canon character.. I resent when supposed "Who fans" use false canon to justify things.

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    • I agree with LostGod and Scottish-Terror on their analysis of Akhaten.

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    • No1
      Valeyard is "false canon"? you are either not well versed in Whoverse or are trying to troll me.. come on.. at least admit it.

      I can't believe you'd be that ignorant of a subject you claim to know about..

      Also, I'm not trying to be insulting but really.. you must be joking..

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    • To cap, Ahkaten does not have control of its actions. It lacks moral capacity. It doesn't matter how evil it is, Ahkaten fails to count because of mitigating factors, and Complete Monsters cannot have any strikes against their character. That defeats the purpose of a Complete Monster.

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    • fine LostGod, you win.

      Scottish.. you fail at Who lore forever : Valeyard is non-canon.

      now I can end this debate.

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    • A FANDOM user
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